?

Log in

 
 
22 May 2007 @ 08:16 pm
Katee and Kara/Lee  
Katee Sackhoff was interviewed at the Vulkon Women of SciFi event (proggrrl has posted links to video interviews from the event). One of the comments Katee made really threw me for a loop. I've been resisting posting about this all day, but I don't seem able to let it go.

So Katee says Kara loves Sam more than she loves Lee. This came as a real shock to me. I respect Sam's importance in Kara's life and I have no doubt that she loves him. I also would fully understand if Katee expressed the sentiment that Sam's healthier for Kara (I personally disagree, but it's understandable that Katee would be in the mindset of her character to this extent). But that she loves him more? I'm shocked. Season 3 was the first time I felt I really saw Kara's love for Lee shine through--in UB they seemed to be playing that Lee was really 'the one' after all, that Kara had only fled from the relationship out of fear and that she'd been drawn back to connect with him despite herself. Then, in Maelstrom, we saw her express her wistfulness that they would never be more than hotshot pilot and CAG. Lee was the last person she spoke to before death and the first person she spoke to on return. It all seemed to fit, but apparently that wasn't the way Kara saw it.

I've seen a lot of people shrugging off Katee's comments comfortably, and it's true that the actor's take on the character is not the be-all and end-all of what we'll see on the show. However, there are a couple of reasons why I find it hard not to take Katee's comment seriously:
- Firstly, Katee herself says she knows Starbuck better than anyone. The actors do seem to 'own' their characters in this way on the show. Jamie certainly does, and I always respect what he has to say about his character. So it goes against my instincts not to show Katee that same courtesy, not to defer to her opinion as well.
- Several people have mentioned Katee changing her story from interview to interview. However, I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't realise that saying Kara loves Sam more wouldn't be a big deal to a lot of fans. Furthermore, Katee fleshes it out quite a lot. She mentions being a little shocked by Sam's 'you're not the first' call to Lee--but not, as I was, shocked because I thought Lee was actually really significant to Kara, but shocked because she 'really really loves this guy (Sam)'. The implication is 'Kara wouldn't do that--she cares about Sam too much--it's only Lee she's a bit confused about, but she's sorted that out now too'.
- wisteria_ has an excellent post which explains why she's OK with Katee's comment and one of the things she points out is that Katee often expresses what Kara's mindset is at a given point in time. That seems true of what I've seen of Katee's interviews. However, if so, I misread Kara in the later half of this season (again!). And it does worry me that this is Kara's mindset going into Season 4. And this is where my Lee-protectiveness comes out...

Lee has lost everything in the later half of the season--his relationships have fallen apart or devolved even further into animosity than they were before, he's given up his role as CAG, he's lost Kara. He finds some core inner strength, it's true, but the only real shining light at the end of the season for Lee was Kara's resurrection. If not for that, I wouldn't have been surprised to see Lee push himself recklessly into that Cylon battle and either get killed or come back but get no acknowledgment for his efforts and return to the same lonely position he was in before he dived for the viper once again.

Dee's left Lee, but Kara has Sam to come back to--and apparently that's exactly what she wants to do. Presumably, then, Season 4 will be about Kara finding out Sam's a Cylon and struggling with that. It's the final season--that's not exactly going to allow much time for her to backflip again and suddenly decide it's Lee she really loves.

Just the other day, queenofthorns observed that most K/L shippers seem to be Kara fans (if they have to choose one character) rather than Lee fans. I count myself in the minority who'd choose Lee. I do love Kara, but she baffles and frustrates me, whereas my love for Lee stands independent of the ship. So now I'm just clinging to the hope that Lee gets lots of opportunity to show just how strong and awesome he can be in Season 4, sans Dee, sans Kara. (Though why they had Dee break up with him, if they're not going to get Kara and Lee together, I really don't know--she has no other plot! Why couldn't he keep Dee if Kara doesn't care? *pouts* They really love tearing Lee to pieces.)

The other thing about Katee's comments that I found truly baffling was the idea that Kara's love for Sam is more adult, that their relationship is more mature. Quote:
She’s known Lee forever, they’ve been friends forever, and I think she’s confusing that for what real adult companionship and love is.
Hmmm. This perplexes me at all sorts of levels. Citing the friendship suggests that it's romantic and/or sexual feelings that Kara's lacking for Lee--but I don't think there's any doubt that she's quite happy to frak him, and she seemed totally swept away on New Caprica (albeit briefly). On the other hand, she mentions 'companionship', which is a good point. It's true that there's a whole range of issues that Kara has that Lee doesn't know about, and she shuts him out of a lot, so although they are friends they don't have that kind of total intimacy. But I don't think she has that with Sam either. Sam offers her no-strings-attached sex but that's hardly companionship. Some would argue this has allowed Kara to open up to Sam in her own time--there may be a case in that seeing as she did discuss her childhood abuse with him in Maelstrom. But she also shuts him down and pushes him away quite coldly as soon as she's done with him (usually straight after sex). I'd hardly call that a mature relationship. And I'd be very uncomfortable with Sam allowing that to continue on a longterm basis--it's gone on long enough--if Kara really sees her love for Sam as 'real' and 'adult' then she needs to make it a proper marriage. There's got to be some give and take. I see Kara take from Sam, but I don't see any give. So saying her love for him shows greater maturity than her love for Lee makes little sense to me.

Anyway, since this set my teeth on edge, I'm burying myself in loving Lee and Lee alone. So you can expect even more determined pimping of how great Lee is from me! *plots Lee spam* For starters, this has given me more motivation than ever to make that Lee character study vid. *g*

On the other hand, I'd like to say a big thank you to the Kara fangirls who did their utmost to talk moe out of my tailspin to day: especially latteaddict and daybreak777. Really, I do appreciate it! Even if I'm still not convinced. ;-)

And last but not least, today also saw the launch of sasa_hq or 'Starbuck and Apollo Shippers Anonymous', for those of us who need support for that addiction... to quote the userinfo: 'Rather than trying to curb your obsession, SASA specializes in channelling it in healthy ways.' *lol*

Oh and someone needs to come over here and talk dionusia and I out of editing Sam out of our fannish creations as revenge. ;-)
Tags: ,
 
 
Current Mood: crushedcrushed
Current Music: Spiritualized--Ladies and Gentlemen we are floating in space
 
 
 
Maren: BSG: Kara/Lee no usmarenfic on May 22nd, 2007 11:55 am (UTC)
I'm not making too much of what Katee said. She's speaking from the POV of a character she hasn't played since November, who at the time had committed to going back to her husband (and Lee to his wife). She hasn't had a chance to play Kara when Sam is a Cylon and Lee is unattached. Katee's conceptualization of Kara's love will change when RDM shapes the story in Season 4, I have no doubt.

Besides, based on that interview I'd guess that if Katee got to pick, she'd go with Leoben :)
smact46smact46 on May 22nd, 2007 12:49 pm (UTC)
you know i have just said much the same thing over at Latte's journal, although much less succinctly. In season 4, lots of things have changed.

I am quite obsessive in my anxiety about where things may go with Leoben. I hope I am wrong.
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 01:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marenfic on May 22nd, 2007 02:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - proggrrl on May 22nd, 2007 02:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 02:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marenfic on May 22nd, 2007 02:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
AHA MOMENT! - proggrrl on May 22nd, 2007 03:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: AHA MOMENT! - marenfic on May 22nd, 2007 04:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - canadiangirl_86 on May 22nd, 2007 05:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 04:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
smact46smact46 on May 22nd, 2007 12:43 pm (UTC)
me too
I am really tired, but I wanted to say that I have loved your posts. I have read a lot tonight and contributed a little. I am a Lee Kara shipper to the hilt, but I feel that I have a better undestanding of lee and I have truly appreciated your comments and essays. I have come to settle upon a few favourite journals to soothe my Bsg angst and many of them have helped me to undestand Kara more (particularly latteaddict and wisteria - they both write so well) but I have truly appreciated your views of Lee. I have to say that I agree with most of what you have said here. I will try to clarify myself tomorrow.
Thanks again.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee smilebop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 01:40 pm (UTC)
Re: me too
Thank you for the kind comment! It's always lovely to hear from people who read my posts and I didn't even realise! ;-)

many of them have helped me to undestand Kara more (particularly latteaddict and wisteria - they both write so well)
*seconds* They help me understand Kara as well! It's definitely good to get the picture from the other side of the equation--I always run to the Kara fans after eps to read their perspective.

Good to meet you!
latteaddict: We are not frakkinglatteaddict on May 22nd, 2007 01:13 pm (UTC)
I totally agree with what marenfic said.

But you have every right to not want to shrug off Katee's comments. I'm trying to see what the shoe would be like on the other foot and if Jamie said it, I would be ranting very loudly.

That being said, Katee will be back on board the moment she starts filming and sees what's planned for her character next season. Who knows, maybe Ron will play up the Sam/Tory 'ship and suddenly Katee won't think Sam's so shiny and perfect for Kara.

I'm just grateful I multi-'ship and get enjoyment from all of Kara's love interests. Though I admit Sam and Leoben are all about the pretty factor for me, Lee is who I'm rooting for to win the race.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee owns Karabop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 01:46 pm (UTC)
maybe Ron will play up the Sam/Tory 'ship and suddenly Katee won't think Sam's so shiny and perfect for Kara.
Maybe! Who knows? I do realise this is just Katee's opinion and the show could have anything in store, but I also think they listen to her a lot--and she's been especially persuasive re. Trucco/Sam.

On other shows I multi-ship my way to happiness. I think I'll go back to my Lee/democracy OTP on this one. ;-) Or perhaps Lee/noodles. :-p He deserves 'em!
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 04:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 08:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 12:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 12:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 01:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
indigo419: Lee jealous BM? syliaindigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 01:15 pm (UTC)
yay, not just me!! I was stomping around all last night and grumbling under my breath. I feel like skipping Katee's Q&A at Dragon*Con now! (I'm sure I will change my mind before then.) I was saying to wisteria_ last night that Katee often gives interviews in the mindset of her character *at that time*, but also I have a feeling Katee has a crush on Michael (and on CKR), so that colors her comments on them.

I'm on my way out the door, so haven't had time to process this properly (or read wisteria_'s post), but one thing that sticks out for me is that there's a confusion between logic and love, in Katee's comment. I wouldn't say that I understand her character better than she does (!), but I think one can love a person regardless of who else might be 'better' (more adult, less volatile...) for you.

Oh and someone needs to come over here and talk dionusia and I out of editing Sam out of our fannish creations as revenge.

I'm not going to do it. No sirree. In fact, I'm going to stand over by you and form a protective wall around Lee!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 01:36 pm (UTC)
Oh, thank goodness I am not alone! *clings tight* Seriously, everyone's breeziness on this score is quite unnerving.

I have a feeling Katee has a crush on Michael (and on CKR), so that colors her comments on them.
Er, yeah, that seems true. Though I find it harder to believe she's not self-aware about that. But she's quite open about liking Michael and CKR, so yeah... I guess she's biased?

there's a confusion between logic and love, in Katee's comment. I wouldn't say that I understand her character better than she does (!), but I think one can love a person regardless of who else might be 'better' (more adult, less volatile...) for you.
RIGHT! Thank you! Yes, it wasn't just that I found her comments hurtful to Lee, it's that they don't make sense. It's just odd that she chose to frame it as loving Sam 'more' than Lee. As I said, I really wouldn't have blinked if she'd said she thought Sam was 'better' for Kara. But love's not logical--that's something Jamie acknowledges quite comfortably in his interviews.

I'm not going to do it. No sirree. In fact, I'm going to stand over by you and form a protective wall around Lee!
Hee! Well I'm trying really hard, I really want to post my vid tonight, and I can't honestly justify taking the two-second clip of Sam out now... but dammit I want to!
(no subject) - marenfic on May 22nd, 2007 01:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 01:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marenfic on May 22nd, 2007 03:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 03:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 04:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 23rd, 2007 04:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 04:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 23rd, 2007 04:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 04:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 03:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 03:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - canadiangirl_86 on May 22nd, 2007 05:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marenfic on May 22nd, 2007 04:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 04:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 04:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 08:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 02:09 pm (UTC)
There's just not enough Kara/Lee contiguously or interstitially over the three seasons to make enough of a lasting impression UNLESS season four is all about the maturation of that relationship. And since I JUST started to think MAYBE Kara loved Lee before her death, hearing her say she loves Sam more just rankles into next Tuesday.
You just summed my feelings up perfectly.

I'm thinking maybe RDM is behind Katee view of her character's progression via relationships
Yes... *glares suspiciously in his direction*

The battlements are ready for you! (And you should fill me in on Atlas Shrugged, since I am unfamiliar with it.)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 04:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 24th, 2007 01:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 25th, 2007 02:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 05:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 11:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 27th, 2007 02:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 27th, 2007 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 28th, 2007 12:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dianora2 on May 23rd, 2007 04:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - dianora2 on May 23rd, 2007 02:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 24th, 2007 03:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 25th, 2007 01:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee frak betide!bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 02:44 pm (UTC)
I just do NOT understand Katee Sackhoff’s mad love for Michael Trucco (isn’t that why Sam came back in the first place?)
Yup. And me neither. Trucco is yawn-enducing at best.

Although the sane(r) more rational side of me is going to have to point out that she also said Kara was in love with Gaius Baltar after season 1, which … I never, ever, ever saw, you know? So there’s that.
That is actually the most comforting thing I have heard all day!

Lee was indeed very right to question Kara’s whole “will you leave Dee if I leave Sam” spiel believing that she’d just turn right around and change her mind.
*nods*

it really irks me that they’ve made Sam a pilot now too – because that was something that Kara and Lee had that their other significant others DIDN’T, that particular way of being a warrior. But, oh, goodie, Sam’s a hotshot Viper pilot now too, so that’s over as well. Sigh!
Yup, it irks me too. I've been doing a lot of bitching and moaning about Sam recently, actually... I didn't need more fuel for that fire!

s long as he gets some awesome storylines like in “Crossroads”, I’ll be comfortable with his not being the love of Kara’s life (even though I kind of hate the idea that he’ll continue to love her unrequited.
Same! It really irks me that it's cast as unrequited love because it has the potential to be so much more than that. And, dammit, I was a believer there for a short time! *stamps foot* But as long as Jamie keeps fighting for Lee to get decent storylines, I may be alright. If Kara doesn't see how awesome Lee is, that's her loss!

In some ways, I’m really grateful for the long hiatus, so I can just forget about BSG for a bit. Heh!
Yeah. It be painful sometimes. The show's very much on my mind still because I'm vidding it. But there will be time for some healthy distance during hiatus. ;-)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 04:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 08:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 03:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 04:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 22nd, 2007 04:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 04:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 08:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 08:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 11:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indigo419 on May 23rd, 2007 01:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 02:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
What's wrong with Jamie???? - smact46 on May 22nd, 2007 09:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: What's wrong with Jamie???? - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 11:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
brandil on May 22nd, 2007 03:20 pm (UTC)
Take heart! Katee was also quoted as saying in Season 1 that she believed Balthar was Starbuck's romantic interest.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee lolbop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 03:39 pm (UTC)
*lol* That is definitely the most comforting remark anyone's come up with yet!
(no subject) - proggrrl on May 22nd, 2007 04:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 04:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
hazy: BSG: Leehazyshade on May 22nd, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)
*hugs you* And thank you for the post; as always you can express so many of my thoughts and opinions better than I ever could!

I've been getting crushed by this or that actor's or producer's comments on my favourite ships for as long as I've shipped. Alas, actors tend not to obsess about ships and this leads to the trampling of my heart. The X-Files was a particular culprit, but I also suffered in Buffy fandom too. As a result I try very hard to only take to heart what I see onscreen, and in many ways I wish we could ONLY get that and not hear the actors' or producers' take on things. Impossible, I know, in an information age - but it's why I avoid RDM's podcasts. ;)

(As an aside, even in literature you aren't safe these days! Recently I read something an author had said about a character and the whole premise of one of my favourite books, and I was devastated that it differed so much from what I'd taken from it. I clearly need to stick to things written hundreds of years ago!)

I'm getting very protective of Lee too, especially now: he really does need something positive to take into/from season 4 now that he's recovered these truths about himself, and like you I saw that coming at least partly from his relationship with Kara. *clings desperately to destiny OT3* Weirdly however, my reaction is to throw myself into my Lee/Sam exchange vid. Just like many Kara-biased K/L fans are also happy with Kara/Sam and Kara/Leoben, as a Lee fan I'm also comfortable with Lee/Laura and Lee/Sam (on a surface basis, anyway). Maybe it's my coping mechanism? Speaking of which, off to join sasa_hq.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee's farewellbop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 07:54 pm (UTC)
As a result I try very hard to only take to heart what I see onscreen, and in many ways I wish we could ONLY get that and not hear the actors' or producers' take on things.
Heh, yeah, this is a bit new to me--usually I love hearing what actors have to say about their characters. But your words are very wise.

As a Lee fan I'm also comfortable with Lee/Laura and Lee/Sam (on a surface basis, anyway). Maybe it's my coping mechanism?
Ohh, me too! :-) Coping mechanisms are yay! Apparently mine is to stay up all night trying to get my damn vid exported! ;-)
(no subject) - dianora2 on May 23rd, 2007 04:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hazyshade on May 23rd, 2007 01:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
canadiangirl_86 on May 22nd, 2007 05:57 pm (UTC)
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. I found myself nodding along with a lot of what you said.

I'm a hardcore Kara and Katee fan, though, and I wonder if that makes me more or less likely to be pissed at Katee's comments, lol. Because, like you, I've always said that the actor understands their character better than anyone, so it's very hard for me to deal with these comments. On the other hand, as has been mentioned many a time, Katee goes back and forth more times than I can count so we're probably all freaking out a little more than we should be. After reading several of her interviews, I'd say her positive comments towards L/K far outweigh any of her positive comments towards K/S so that probably says something.

I also think marenfic is on to something when she says Katee hasn't played Kara for months. But I also saw it mentioned (on the Skiffy boards) that they are currently filming the Pegasus movie, which Kara is a part of in flashbacks. So, is it possible that Katee is in S2 mode, when her character was still denying the magnitude of her feelings for Lee? It's definitely an interesting argument.

And for what it's worth, I think Katee's plain wrong on this one. I just did not, in any way, shape, or form, see what she claims happened in the second half of season three. In fact, I saw the opposite. I saw what all of you saw and I honestly think that's what was intended. Hopefully that's how she played it as well, and only now decided to change her mind on the subject.

I'm going to a con (my first one!) in July, hopefully, to see Katee. If I have the balls to, I'll attempt to ask about these comments. But I'll probably pass out before then.

Let's just wait for Katee to change her mind again, shall we? *G*
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee smilebop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 07:59 pm (UTC)
I'd say her positive comments towards L/K far outweigh any of her positive comments towards K/S so that probably says something.
Hope so! I will choose to believe that means something.

they are currently filming the Pegasus movie, which Kara is a part of in flashbacks. So, is it possible that Katee is in S2 mode, when her character was still denying the magnitude of her feelings for Lee? It's definitely an interesting argument.
Yeah, that's curious too... her feelings don't quite gel with what I see at either time.

for what it's worth, I think Katee's plain wrong on this one. I just did not, in any way, shape, or form, see what she claims happened in the second half of season three. In fact, I saw the opposite. I saw what all of you saw and I honestly think that's what was intended.
*lol* Yeah. I'm coming down firmly on the side of 'Katee's just wrong'. :-p It feels mean, but it preserves my sanity. ;-)

I'm going to a con (my first one!) in July, hopefully, to see Katee. If I have the balls to, I'll attempt to ask about these comments. But I'll probably pass out before then.
Ohh, how exciting! Personally I would definitely pass out! ;-)

(no subject) - smact46 on May 22nd, 2007 09:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - latteaddict on May 24th, 2007 06:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 25th, 2007 03:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
I'm eating m&m's and chatty p1 - latteaddict on May 26th, 2007 12:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
I'm waiting for soup to cook and chatty, :-) - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 08:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I'm eating m&m's and chatty p1 - smact46 on May 29th, 2007 03:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
I'm eating m&m's and chatty p2 - latteaddict on May 26th, 2007 12:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
still waitin' on that soup, part 1 - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 09:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (A) - latteaddict on May 26th, 2007 01:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
My tl; dr reply (part one) - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 01:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (A) - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 01:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (A) - latteaddict on May 26th, 2007 02:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (A) - bop_radar on May 27th, 2007 12:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
tl/dr response part 3 - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 02:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (B) - latteaddict on May 26th, 2007 01:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (B) - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 02:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (B) - latteaddict on May 28th, 2007 02:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 1 (B) - bop_radar on May 28th, 2007 06:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
still waitin' on that soup, part 2 - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 09:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: still waitin' on that soup, part 2 - latteaddict on May 26th, 2007 01:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
you spamming me? Me spamming YOU! - bop_radar on May 26th, 2007 02:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
continued... - latteaddict on May 24th, 2007 06:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: continued... - bop_radar on May 25th, 2007 04:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
The First Evil: Lee - White Dress Shirt - wisteria_asta77 on May 22nd, 2007 11:06 pm (UTC)
Let the non-shipper jump in here. ;)

The other thing about Katee's comments that I found truly baffling was the idea that Kara's love for Sam is more adult, that their relationship is more mature. Quote:
She’s known Lee forever, they’ve been friends forever, and I think she’s confusing that for what real adult companionship and love is.


I found this comment a bit perplexing because, at various times, they have all acted childishly. Kara running off to marry Sam. Sam painting a picture of Kara as the whore of New Caprica to, as Katee put it, stab Lee in the back. And Lee not being truthful with Dee. The Lee/Kara scene in 'Maelstorm' was the first time I saw them as acting like mature adults together in a very long time.

However, maybe what Katee meant to say and what I can accept as being accurate is that Kara wants a mature relationship and is tired of the relationship angst. She believes (whether she is right or wrong is a whole other debate) that she can have that with Sam, but not with Lee. And, yeah, Katee seems to have a little crush on MT which I'd hazzard to guess influences her opinion. ;)

So now I'm just clinging to the hope that Lee gets lots of opportunity to show just how strong and awesome he can be in Season 4, sans Dee, sans Kara. (Though why they had Dee break up with him, if they're not going to get Kara and Lee together, I really don't know--she has no other plot! Why couldn't he keep Dee if Kara doesn't care? *pouts* They really love tearing Lee to pieces.)

No, no, no, no, noooooo, Lee could not stay with Dee. Keeping them together would only compound the tragic mistake they made in putting them together in the first place. At least I can rationalize why Lee opted to date her/marry her, but to keep him with her just because they are keeping Kara with Sam (maybe) would be devastating to the character after the awesome job they did rebuilding him in the final three episodes. Lee's "You just don't understand" to Dee was the end of their marriage even if Kara had been there, happy with Sam. As Dee explains why she's walking out on him it hits him that if sticking to his ideals is the reason she can't be with him then she NEVER knew him. And if that's the case, then how can he continue being married to her?

Personally, I think the best thing for Lee is to be alone for awhile. He's much more fascinating when he has his own storyline then when he is tied to someone else's. As for Dee, I don't know what they can do with her now she's been pretty useless all season and now she can't even play The Wife.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee smilebop_radar on May 22nd, 2007 11:20 pm (UTC)
Let the non-shipper jump in here. ;)
PLEASE! *clings*

they have all acted childishly
Definitely!

what I can accept as being accurate is that Kara wants a mature relationship and is tired of the relationship angst. She believes (whether she is right or wrong is a whole other debate) that she can have that with Sam, but not with Lee.
I find that a lot easier to accept--it would be two-faced of me not to since I have every sympathy for Bamber's comments along the same lines, and for his comment that he thinks Dee is the healthier option for Lee. But Bamber acknowledged the way Lee was drawn to Kara despite himself, whereas Katee made a directly comparative statement about the quantity of love. But I'll try and put it down to clumsy expression.

Keeping them together would only compound the tragic mistake they made in putting them together in the first place
Ach, I was only kidding and being childish with that comment about Dee. I don't really want to see that either.

Lee's "You just don't understand" to Dee was the end of their marriage even if Kara had been there, happy with Sam.
True! And you're quite right--Lee CANNOT remain married to someone who doesn't really know him. Thank you for the timely reminder!

He's much more fascinating when he has his own storyline then when he is tied to someone else's.
Also true! Right, your words have entirely perked me up. Lee, Lee, Lee! *goes back to fangirling him and forgets about Kara*

As for Dee, I don't know what they can do with her now she's been pretty useless all season and now she can't even play The Wife.
Perhaps she can be the token character killed to bring home how 'real' and 'gritty' the show is? Seriously, I can't see ANY role for her.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 12:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
symptomatic - smact46 on May 29th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on May 29th, 2007 12:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
oops - smact46 on May 29th, 2007 03:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: oops - bop_radar on May 29th, 2007 05:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 29th, 2007 05:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - asta77 on May 30th, 2007 03:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
hoolia goolia: Kara/Lee shooting rangeboom_queen on May 23rd, 2007 12:46 am (UTC)
Ohnoes! Did not mean to breeze over your flailing, darling--I was just trying to see the positive (still very glad that the actors opinions do not exclusively guide the direction of the show--as much as I love them). And like latteaddict I do multi-ship because I'm Kara-centric and she looks so damn pretty with everyone, but I want to her to be with Lee in the end. [And I'm incredibly grateful for Lee-champions such as yourself to help me see his side of things better when I get too biased.] He's really the only one complex and interesting enough for her, and their chemistry trumps all the others ultimately.

I said this over in dionusia's post too, but I still truly think pilots will be together again, especially with the finale in mind. They are both a major crossing roads in terms of their individual paths and their relationships to spouses. But most importantly, the entire end scene of the whole frakkin season was focused on the two of them reconnecting and how their mutual journey is going to shape the path of the fleet as a whole. Pilots will triumph!

*squeezes* Don't give up hope yet :)
hoolia goolia: Lee smiles so prettyboom_queen on May 23rd, 2007 12:48 am (UTC)
PS: This is somewhat off topic but I actually had a dream the other day that you had made a Lee-centric vid and I was eagerly waiting for you to post it. I know you're a bit intimated at the prospect of vidding him because you care so much, but just think of how much more amazing that would make the vid too!
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 01:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - boom_queen on May 23rd, 2007 01:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 01:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
dianora: bsg lee kara shippydianora2 on May 23rd, 2007 04:11 am (UTC)
*raises hand* I am a Lee Fan First, as we used to put it back in soap opera fandom. And yes, it is a minority, isn't it? That's okay, I don't like going with the crowd anyway... *g*

Anyhoo -- this is why I generally don't read/watch actor interviews. LOL. They often don't see their characters the same way we do and, as someone said upthread, they don't obsess over their ships the way we do, so there is bound to be some disconnect.

It all seemed to fit, but apparently that wasn't the way Kara saw it.

Really, though, it wasn't the way Katee saw it, and that's not necessarily the same as the way Kara saw it, IMO. In addition to being in the Lee camp I am also in that small camp that believes writing rules all. *g* Although, really -- I see what she's saying. Her love for Sam is more traditional, more pure, in a way, more man&woman love, as opposed to what she has for Lee, which is dysfunctional, stunted, and hopelessly complicated. In that sense, Kara DOES love Sam more, because she is able to love him freely. She doesn't love Lee that way. It doesn't mean, however, that she's not in love with him, and that she's not meant to be with him, just that it's not the same wholehearted love she feels with Sam. Not yet. :)

Ultimately, I don't think what Katee thinks matters as much as what the writers think. I know it's frustrating, regardless. (Again: that's why I don't read interviews. I'm just too chicken to go through the emotional trauma. *g*)

And thanks for the comm rec! I just signed up.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee secret weaponbop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 04:19 am (UTC)
Her love for Sam is more traditional, more pure, in a way, more man&woman love, as opposed to what she has for Lee, which is dysfunctional, stunted, and hopelessly complicated. In that sense, Kara DOES love Sam more, because she is able to love him freely.
Ohh, I like that take on it. Because I'm the first to admit that it's dysfunctional and stunted and complicated with Lee. At the moment. I just also believe it has way more potential and is ultimately going to be more satisfying. *g*
Perhaps that's what Katee was trying to get at. I can see that her love for Lee is burdened with far more weight and baggage than her love for Sam.

that's why I don't read interviews. I'm just too chicken to go through the emotional trauma.
Hee! It's the masochist in me...

The comm is awesome! I am already cheerified by it!
(no subject) - dianora2 on May 23rd, 2007 04:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
daybreak777: pilots together foreverdaybreak777 on May 23rd, 2007 05:55 am (UTC)
So Bop, a day later, are you convinced yet? You are not alone. We are not alone. It takes a village to keep a shipper's hope alive, I tell you.

One thing about actors and interviews. Once I was in love with a show and read all the inteviews I could. A friend and I had a point of view on a character's motivation in a scene. When we read an interview we found, the actor playing the character had a completely different intention in the scene than what we saw. So did the writers. So did the director. It was totally changed in editing. The whole meaning of the scene changed and the director liked that cut and left it in. Just like that.

Wow. Was the actor wrong in what she thought the character was doing at the time of filming? Were we wrong with what we clearly saw on screen? I'll go with the screen. Long after the actors have moved on to other roles, the screen is what lasts.

I'm glad you told me about all of this. But I'm sorry it broke your shipper's heart a bit.

*Offers glue and cookies, 'cause cookies fix everything*

I hope you're better today. I like getting inside information of what the actors think, even if it isn't what I want. It's all so, so curious. We of the fandom, we know so much, much more than the average viewer. But (still tyring to cheer you, thinks . . .) I remember you after the Maelstrom episode. So sad. But she came back, right? Don't you worry, Katee will do her magic and all will see that she loves Lee more, even Katee. Believe it. I hope someday you can see it, I really, really, really do. It's just so clear to me.

Back to shipper board because I'm utterly hopeless and can't stop talking about them!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee/Kara boundbop_radar on May 23rd, 2007 06:24 am (UTC)
I'm more convinced, yes. ;-) It does take a village! I didn't realise!

It was totally changed in editing. The whole meaning of the scene changed and the director liked that cut and left it in. Just like that.
Heee! Well, that's a great anecdote to tell me, because I'm an editor! ;-) Never underestimate the power of the editor! ;-)

I'll go with the screen. Long after the actors have moved on to other roles, the screen is what lasts.
You're right.

I like getting inside information of what the actors think, even if it isn't what I want.
In the long run, so do I.

I remember you after the Maelstrom episode. So sad. But she came back, right?
Heee. Yeah, I know. I tend to get rather absurdly emotional where BSG is concerned... and yes, my heart got patched up again. She came back!

May she ALWAYS come back.
(no subject) - daybreak777 on May 23rd, 2007 07:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
katiebugs18katiebugs18 on May 23rd, 2007 03:16 pm (UTC)
Oh gods damn it! See, this is why I wasn't going to read this. I KNEW it'd piss me off and I'd obsess over it. Gods why did I give in?! The post just kept staring at me and I had a weak moment. Serves me right.

*DEEP BREATH* That said, I'm simply going to ignore it. That's right, as far as I'm concerned Katee was having a bad day, she didn't really think her comments through...ya know, the usual forms of denial. Also, for some odd reason I trust the writers to do right by us in S4 no matter what. As you said, the arc they've set up with Kara and Lee, starting in Maelstrom and continuing in Crossroads II is too obvious to ignore and it's definitely something they just won't drop, it's too big for that.

And I'm with you as being a Lee fan independently of my ship of Lee/Kara. It's difficult for me to express clearly but suffice to say I just "get" Lee. I love the character and it pains me how they seem to kick him around so much. But I have high hopes of Lee coming into his own next season and finally being able to build a healthy relationship with the important people in his life: his father and (mainly) Kara.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on May 24th, 2007 12:51 am (UTC)
The only thing I fully avoid are spoilers. I usually don't mind reading actor's opinions about what's already happened. But as you can see, I totally flipped out over this one.

The good news is I have recovered my equilibrium.

As you said, the arc they've set up with Kara and Lee, starting in Maelstrom and continuing in Crossroads II is too obvious to ignore and it's definitely something they just won't drop, it's too big for that.
Well, I felt that very strongly, yes--strongly enough to write two essays about Kara/Lee/Destiny OT3! ;-) And I do think they were well-reasoned so I'll return to putting faith in my own interpretation of the show until the show itself proves me wrong.

It's difficult for me to express clearly but suffice to say I just "get" Lee.
Yes, people seem to connect with one or the other--Lee is my 'pov' character--I see things through his eyes. And I also empathise with him heavily for a host of complex personal reasons.

I have high hopes of Lee coming into his own next season and finally being able to build a healthy relationship with the important people in his life: his father and (mainly) Kara.
I hope so! The show's very brutal. But I do hope so. I am less optimistic usually myself. I tend to expect the worst and brace myself for it in advance where Lee is concerned--but I do hope they give us a silver lining for his clouds. He DESERVES it, dammit! ;-)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - katiebugs18 on May 24th, 2007 09:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
m voll on December 23rd, 2013 11:23 pm (UTC)
Katees comments have to be taken w/ a huge grain of salt. Katee and Michael are very close friends and it was her that pushed for a bigger role for her friend in bsg. RDM has always stated that Lee & Kara are the primary pairing. That Kara is deeply in love with Lee and married Sam in a moment of confusion and fear over the depth of her love for Lee.