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17 April 2008 @ 10:22 am
Pilot-centric thoughts post-4.02  
I've been working on my post about my holiday but it's loooong and in the meantime my thoughts keep flying back to BSG. Not helped by the fact that wisteria_ has posed some terrific burning questions about the first two eps. I couldn't really answer any of them but I do have more to say on the subject of pilots.
OK, ok, this is going to be hideously sappy. Don't say I didn't warn you! But I am currently in an idyllic place of OTP zen (term coined from dionusia). This is a very rare state of being and I intend to stay there as long as possible! Also, I was able to pick supacat's brains on what was going on with Kara in the last two eps. I always love her take on Kara. It isn't always the same as fandom's dominant take but it always gives me something new to think about and I feel like I get to see the other side of the picture through her eyes. Of course, that makes the conversation sound like a peaceful exchange of views. Actually it was more like this:
Cat: So I saw 4.2.
Bop: OMG! *stops breathing*
Cat: *makes some random comments about other parts of the ep while Bop tries to focus on driving* Oh, and the pilots scene was sooo good.
Bop: Yeah, it was fantastic!
Cat: Except that Lee's line about 'especially you' was totally WTF!
Bop: *trying to avoid swerving off course* OMG, no way! Kara's line was the WTF line!
Cat: What?! What do you MEAN?! The one time that Kara asked for something, the ONE TIME...
Bop (internally): I knew it. I knew there would be screaming.
*conversation descends into flailing and talking over one another as Bop caves and pulls over*

Out of our three-hour-long conversation we gleaned the following:
- Kara and Lee both unconsciously gave the other the reassurance that they needed. I explained that Lee desperately wanted Kara's approval about his change in career. That was perhaps less obvious than Kara's need to be believed. The unconscious part is what's interesting though. Even though he was seeking to reassure, I don't think Lee really knew just how desperately Kara needed to be told he believed in her. And Kara didn't know that her 'so say we all' and her wishing him all the best and her general pleased-ness to see him meant so much to him. Both of them were somewhat 'selfish' in that scene in that they wanted the other's approval/blessing and wanted to reconnect before parting. So it's touching that somehow they also found a way, somewhat blindly, to give the other back that same approval or blessing.
- Both Kara and Lee are more emotionally centred this season. That's the best way I can think to describe it. There's an inner stillness and certainty to each of them, regardless of what's going on on the outside. With Lee, you could see it in the scene where he turned down his father's invitation to return to the fleet. With Kara it's harder to see because she's so emotional on the surface, but she's more determined than ever before. I've almost wanted to say she's more 'confident', but what she's confident about is not herself, but the fact that she's found the way to Earth. That's bigger than her, and it's leant her this absolute driven certainty. She was always courageous and self-sacrificing, but now she's got something to fight for. (Oh. Wait. That was Anders. *groan*) Anyway, I find it really moving that both of them have found their way to a place of personal certainty. I think we saw Kara start to get there in Maelstrom, and I'm not sure that it's just the journey we didn't see that got her there--we did get to see her make peace with herself, and especially her fear of death, last season. And of course there is this sense that they each have a 'destiny' now. As Lee says, it doesn't matter that they don't understand all the whys and hows: they just believe. And while that has religious overtones I like that it's not being played massively that way by either of them. Neither is suggesting that they're connected to the deities or the prophecies; their certainty and faith is internal and personal. To describe it another way, they've 'found themselves'.
- 'Except me' and 'Especially you' were a bit 'wtf' to Lee and Kara themselves, respectively. And I think it was dionusia who said that in the beat following that moment there was the sense of hope that they might be closer to being on the same page than they thought. Kara believes Lee turned her down once and for all in TAB. Lee thinks Kara wasn't that serious anyway and that she went back to Sam happily. His 'especially you' echoes his 'whatever it takes' from Maelstrom; he'd do anything for Kara, if she asked (or if he just clued on to her signals as he does later in that scene). As Cat was at pains to point out, Kara's confused by his 'especially you' because the one time she really put herself on the line and asked for the biggest thing of all (him leaving Dee) he rejected her. (It's really hard for me to write that without bursting into refutal, btw!) While they still don't know the other's perspective, they could at least tell from the other's reaction that there was ... something ... there. Something that didn't quite click--in a good way. And I think that laid the groundwork for them connecting.
- They were each respecting the other person's boundaries. And I kind of adore that MASSIVELY. It made the scene so deliciously tense because they had to find their way towards each other despite that. I said to Cat I think Lee kind of panicked when Kara stood up because it harder for them to not hug (or do more than that) and I think he felt he shouldn't do any more of that--that the melodramatic reunion hug was inappropriate enough. He respects her marriage--and he respects Sam, and Sam's place as her main emotional support. It isn't until Kara indicates she wants that from him too that he shows her the true extent of his feelings. As for Kara, she tried her hardest to do the 'just friends' farewell. But I'm glad she didn't succeed. ;)
- Another parity between the two is that they were also trying to protect the other emotionally. We don't know what they've discussed before this, and I do think they must have said more than we saw, but it's still obvious that neither is monopolising the scene with their issues. Lee's not telling Kara how miserable he was when she died, how he fought with his father, how angry he was about the trial, how his marriage fell apart. And even more significantly Kara's not talking about her fears and the fact she's locked up, a suspected Cylon. We don't know if Lee knew what Adama was going to do, but Kara didn't know, and so she probably thought this was goodbye forever. Instead of focusing on the bleak realities of their lives, they give each other a bit of hope.
- Despite all that, I think they were both dropping hints that they wanted to connect more than just as friends. On rewatch, I was surprised by how quickly Kara said 'except me' in response to Lee. They jump from talking of Lee's new move into politics straight to their relationship: it must have been foremost in her mind for her response to be so quick. And she shows her emotions about that on her face. I'm better at knowing when Lee's signalling to Kara, and in his fidgeting and his eye contact and his second hand in the handshake, he was definitely saying 'you're everything to me'. I was fascinated that Cat thought the one Kara picked up on was the glance back Lee made before leaving. That glance-back reminded me of Lee's glance-back in the miniseries when they meet up after his non-death. And then my head got all spinny at the parallels. ;)
- Kara was at her most vulnerable in this scene: I don't think I've ever seen her show her heart and her fears so clearly on her face and in her body language. Lee's often the more emotionally demonstrative where their love is concerned, but here he was the far more contained of the two. Instead, where he was vulnerable was in regards to his own life--he shared his hopes and fears with her aloud--and for him that's HUGE.

Choosing to act
Lee pauses before he turns back to Kara, and I think all K/L shippers found that pause agonising. Cat gave me possibly the best bit of vid feedback I've ever received in saying that she felt 'Middleman' showed a Lee who was, essentially, eternally trapped in that 'pause'. I agree in that he's often torn between two conflicing loyalties or principles, or between his heart and his head. He's also internally torn between thinking and acting. I strongly feel that this was a case where he chose to act from his heart rather than stay stuck in the moment, or let his logic and intellect dictate everything. It works well to reflect where Lee is at in all aspects of his life, not just with Kara: he's moving forward with his life, following his instincts that he can't even fully explain.

I was thinking about whether the same is true for Kara. She's certainly come back forceful and determined. But Kara's always been an action hero. On the surface level facing down Roslin might seem like choosing to act for what she believes in, but instead we see her turn the gun on herself. I think the complement to Lee learning to seize his destiny and act on his instincts is Kara learning to surrender to hers. She's surrendered her life to finding Earth and is willing to do so again. When Helo comes for her she seems to genuinely believe she might be airlocked, and it's not easy for her in any way (she points out that it's 'harder') but she accepts the reality of what is (or might be) happening. She also accepts the change of fate that Adama offers.

When she's in the cell with Lee she's flooded with emotion when he turns to leave, and where she might once have let her pride push that down and not show him she needed him, she instead calls out. And then she accepts his kisses. It was very clear that it was Lee kissing Kara, and not the other way around. A receptive Kara Thrace and an acting Lee Adama are so beautiful!

brokenmnemonic described it as "seeing all the things from Lee that he's wanted to show Kara, but never been able to" and I think that's the best description I've seen. Other than dionusia's call that it was better than sex. ;) (Wow, I am super!sappy. Thank god the next episode is coming soon so that I'll stop being so INSUFFERABLY HAPPY about them.)

As for all the reactions about whether this is it for them, I still really cannot read this is a closure/ending scene for them in any way. It was goodbye in the literal sense that they were parting, but it definitely promised more. More so from Lee, perhaps, than Kara, since Kara wasn't thinking far ahead and what future she saw for herself was very bleak. But this was definitely Lee's 'here I am if you want me' statement to Kara. If they connect again in the future when Kara actually does have a future she can contemplate, it'll depend whether she wants to take him up on that. Meanwhile I'm just happy they have each other in their hearts and minds. I hope the show doesn't rip that away from me too quickly.
 
 
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
Current Mood: embarrassedembarrassed
 
 
 
a reason to fight: BSG - Lee/Kara - I Believe In Youareasontofight on April 17th, 2008 03:10 pm (UTC)
Both Kara and Lee are more emotionally centred this season. That's the best way I can think to describe it. There's an inner stillness and certainty to each of them, regardless of what's going on on the outside.

I'm so glad you said that, and I completely agree. I was going to say something similar myself about 4x02, but I wasn't sure how to put it without sounding crazy considering Kara spent most of the episode screaming on the floor of the brig. But underneath that there's such certainty in her. She knows she is right and that she can show them the way to Earth. All the emotion on the surface comes from no one believing her. It reminds me of Crossroads Pt1 when Adama didn't believe that Lee hadn't known about Tigh and Ellen prior to the trial - there's something about seeing people who are telling the absolute truth be called liars by those they love that upsets me more than anything else. (Now watch Kara turn out to be a lying Cylon.... *g*)

I think Lee kind of panicked when Kara stood up because it harder for them to not hug (or do more than that) and I think he felt he shouldn't do any more of that

I loved that. One the one hand I think Lee was, like you said, respectful of Sam being Kara's going slightly nuts Cylon husband. He knew it wasn't his place to do anymore than just be her friend and support her. But you've also got the fact that Kara is stuck in the brig, the entire fleet think she's a Cylon, and to say she's got a lot going on would be an understatement. Is that really the time to start making declarations of love? But as soon as Kara made the first move and indicated she did want more, it became ok for Lee to take that step. He loves her to much not to.

I don't think I've ever seen her show her heart and her fears so clearly on her face and in her body language.

Me neither. I've never seen her so completely open to anyone. She has small moments of it throughout the series up to now - UB (especially the extended version) and Maelstrom in particular - but never to that extent. I think that's partly down to how different Kara is now, and in particular how centrered and certain as you said. She always seemed to build a wall up between her and everyone else - a slightly mocking, arrogant front (mostly I think to protect herself from getting hurt) - but that's gone and it's like all her feelings and emotions are right there for everyone to see. It's gorgeous.

I still really cannot read this is a closure/ending scene for them in any way. It was goodbye in the literal sense that they were parting, but it definitely promised more.

I'm glad you feel that way too. I keep seeing comments about it being the end or and others that say it's a hint of what's to come. I believe it's the latter, but the eternal pessimist in me is reminding me about the former the former just in case. But in terms of the characters and where they were in that moment I certainly didn't see it as closure or as a final goodbye. It was goodbye for now as they leave to take their own journies in life and fulfil their destinies, but I definitely thought the kiss was a promise for the future. A confirmation of their feelings, and that if they survive this and find each other again maybe there's a chance for them to be together and finally be happy. My worry is that as much as I don't think it was closure for Lee and Kara, it could be for them in the show because of the paths they are about to take. But again that's the pessimist talking and I really hope I'm wrong.

I've been on a Lee/Kara high for the past two weeks, so it'll be good to see the next episode and be brought back down to earth.

(I really shouldn't start replying to these posts at work because clearly I don't ever stop!)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee/Kara boundbop_radar on April 18th, 2008 02:38 am (UTC)
I wasn't sure how to put it without sounding crazy considering Kara spent most of the episode screaming on the floor of the brig. But underneath that there's such certainty in her
I'm so glad you see it too. Not everyone does. It definitely sounds kind of weird at first because superficially she was in near hysterics most of the episode. But underneath something feels different about her--and you can especially see that when she's with Lee. She felt different.

there's something about seeing people who are telling the absolute truth be called liars by those they love that upsets me more than anything else. (Now watch Kara turn out to be a lying Cylon.... *g*)
She won't be. Don't worry, I have faith! And I agree that it's really heartrending to watch.

to say she's got a lot going on would be an understatement. Is that really the time to start making declarations of love?
Exactly! Just as it wasn't when she was going through turmoil in Maelstrom. Back then, he did the most he could in saying 'whatever it takes' and staring at her with such love in his eyes: anything more would have made the situation about them, inappropriately, since the point was what Kara was going through.

I think that's partly down to how different Kara is now, and in particular how centrered and certain as you said. She always seemed to build a wall up between her and everyone else - a slightly mocking, arrogant front (mostly I think to protect herself from getting hurt) - but that's gone and it's like all her feelings and emotions are right there for everyone to see. It's gorgeous.
I find it gorgeous too. You've described it perfectly, I think. It's something so precious that she can be so open now. I know some people are reading it as coming from a place of desperation, and I do think it's connected to her facing/experiencing death, but I also think it's bigger than that.

I believe it's the latter, but the eternal pessimist in me is reminding me about the former the former just in case
Ah yes, I've been going back and forth all week myself. I know I should brace myself for pain and shock but then I find myself warring internally with that idea and thinking 'no! they have so much HOPE right now!'

A confirmation of their feelings, and that if they survive this and find each other again maybe there's a chance for them to be together and finally be happy. My worry is that as much as I don't think it was closure for Lee and Kara, it could be for them in the show because of the paths they are about to take.
It's possible, but it would be kind of weird because they'd be ending their story very early in the final season. Why? Everyone else's stories are still going/open-ended. Apart from Lee/Dee, I guess.

I've been on a Lee/Kara high for the past two weeks, so it'll be good to see the next episode and be brought back down to earth.
Sigh. Yeah, I know. It will. I've been on a high too.

And I'm also replying at work, so sympathy. :) I like your chatty comments though!
a reason to fight: BSG - Lee - A Moment In Timeareasontofight on April 18th, 2008 02:19 pm (UTC)
She won't be. Don't worry, I have faith!

Me too. I don't believe for one second that Kara is a Cylon. And I don't think anyone out there does. But what if they're pushing it so hard so that we all assume they're playing us, and then she will be one. Reverse psychology! But I'm kidding. Kind of.

I know some people are reading it as coming from a place of desperation, and I do think it's connected to her facing/experiencing death, but I also think it's bigger than that.

I definitely think part of Kara now is desperation and coming so close to death (or dying?). But it is more than that. Before she was always the screw up, deserted by those she loved, and so she pushed people away and kept screwing up - almost seeing how far she could get away with it. But now it's like she realises why she's here. She's no longer just muddling her way through life doing the only thing she knows how to do. She has a reason for being, a purpose and, perhaps as a result, is worthy of love. And she's not so afraid of that love anymore, so she can open up and allow herself to feel in return. Again with the idea of there being a certainty about her, it's like she 'gets' it now - there's a reason she's alive.

I know I should brace myself for pain and shock but then I find myself warring internally with that idea and thinking 'no! they have so much HOPE right now!'

I know. You have to prepare yourself for the worst, but it's hard to lose hope after such an awesome moment. I read this on a review of 'Six of One':

"Jamie Bamber has really given Apollo much more depth this season and for the first time I'm really caring about his character. His scene with Starbuck in the cell was great. Beautifully acted by both of them and Lee and Kara's kiss had a real sense of finality to it. Are they finally over each other? There was a palpable sense of loss and of unfulfilled destinies."

As great as the rest of the review is, the 'Are they finally over each other?' bit really threw me. If it said 'Are they really over?' it would have worked, but 'finally'? Nothing about that scene, however much of a goodbye it may have been, said to me that they were even close to being over each other. Very strange...

It's possible, but it would be kind of weird because they'd be ending their story very early in the final season. Why?

I don't think it would make sense for that to be it, but I have zero idea of how the season is going to play out. I can't imagine they'll be off doing completely different things throughout, but if that turned out to be the case then far better we get some closure now, than not at all.

Edited at 2008-04-18 02:19 pm (UTC)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee dreamybop_radar on April 19th, 2008 01:43 pm (UTC)
But what if they're pushing it so hard so that we all assume they're playing us, and then she will be one. Reverse psychology!
The thought has crossed my mind too... but no.

But now it's like she realises why she's here. She's no longer just muddling her way through life doing the only thing she knows how to do. She has a reason for being, a purpose and, perhaps as a result, is worthy of love. And she's not so afraid of that love anymore, so she can open up and allow herself to feel in return. Again with the idea of there being a certainty about her, it's like she 'gets' it now - there's a reason she's alive.
That's beautifully expressed. Thank you for sharing that! Yes, I think that's what I'm seeing too.

Nothing about that scene, however much of a goodbye it may have been, said to me that they were even close to being over each other. Very strange...
Truly. I'm with you.

I don't think it would make sense for that to be it, but I have zero idea of how the season is going to play out. I can't imagine they'll be off doing completely different things throughout, but if that turned out to be the case then far better we get some closure now, than not at all.
That's true. Though it's also hard for me to believe that they will be apart the ENTIRE season. Some of it, I understand. But all? Seems weird.
Alexandra Leaving: BSG- Kara/Lee foreveralexandral on April 17th, 2008 03:39 pm (UTC)
May be later I can come up with something intelligent but for now I just say that I agree with everything. This is a fabulous post.

As for all the reactions about whether this is it for them, I still really cannot read this is a closure/ending scene for them in any way. It was goodbye in the literal sense that they were parting, but it definitely promised more.

I felt the same. Considering I have missed 2/3 of the season 3 my POV is quite unclouded at the moment. It looked as if they both said "Yes, our relationship is a forever thing". It came across as if both of them weren't sure why they weren't together (and so was I!!!)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee dreamybop_radar on April 18th, 2008 02:30 am (UTC)
Thank you--I'm glad you liked the post. It's refreshing to hear from someone that hasn't seen S3. It was a pretty dark period for both of them. And I definitely agree that this was a 'our relationship is forever' scene.

It came across as if both of them weren't sure why they weren't together (and so was I!!!)
Hee hee, yeah if only they weren't parting, I think they'd have worked that one through to its natural conclusion. ;)
Caryle: k/l homecarylerg on April 17th, 2008 03:52 pm (UTC)
I wish I had something more profound to share, but since I've only had four hours of sleep all I can say is that I agree with all of this.

It's fun to see my fellow Kara/Lee shippers feeling giddy about an episode. I just hope the writers throw us some bones to help keep hope alive. :)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara can't notbop_radar on April 18th, 2008 02:29 am (UTC)
Yay--I'm glad you're giddy too! And I share your hope on the writing front. I'm already bracing myself for the next ep (I always get pre-BSG jitters) but maybe, maybe they'll give us something...
daybreak777: season four hugdaybreak777 on April 17th, 2008 04:18 pm (UTC)
Wow, what a post! When you come back to LJ, you don't mess around. :-)

Both Kara and Lee are more emotionally centred this season.
Really? I can't see it. *looks harder* I see Lee as having grown up big time. Like you said about his refusal to be a pilot again and not getting pulled back into wanting Daddy's approval. Kudos to him. But I don't think he's all there yet. And Kara? 'Centered' is not the word I'd use for her in SoO. I so wish that were so. She's just more open about emotions to me, so was Lee. And hers seemed all over the place. She did seem centered when she first got out of that viper . . . But I don't know if the certainty is really hers. She's been physically connected to this map (i.e. migraines of destiny). She has to follow because she wants to, but it also physically hurts her to jump away from the path. How much choice does she have other than to be determined? If Adama hadn't sent her back, I feel she might have lost her mind or literally died trying to convince them.

They were each respecting the other person's boundaries
Aww. This point I agree with you on wholeheartedly. :-) My kids are growing up. They just cut right through their usual blame game and went straight to I need and believe you. Sigh. What else matters more than that?

She's surrendered her life to finding Earth and is willing to do so again.
I gave such a sigh at reading this. I don't know why. I know she had to grow up. But Kara and the word surrender, just not what I'm used to. I thought she wrote her own destiny!!

I realized that I'm not worried that they are saying good-bye to each other. It seemed to me they are saying good-bye to who they used to be. That's it in nutshell for me. Understanding it with Lee is easier, I've seen his growth and journey. He's not there yet but I'm proud of him. With Kara, one moment she was losing her mind and diving into a gas giant, the next she's back all gleeful and with a purpose. I don't mind her changing, sort of, but I feel I missed it! I know she went through a change in her dream with Head!Leoben but in Maelstrom I didn't see that change so much in reality. There was just this sort of sad resignation, from what I last saw. "I guess that's all we'll ever be."

I guess not! No, they love each other, that much is clear. And it's nice for that to be clear to them when it's been clear to us for ages. But who are they now? Will remnants of the old banter come through? Will they be all grownup and mature now? I don't know and I guess it bugs me. They were kind of dysfunctional before together, but I still loved them together anyway. I wonder about this new dynamic. Don't dislike it, it's just . . . new.

I hope this doesn't take away any squee. Our couple loves each other and that is a good, good thing. And they all but admitted it openly. I just worry about my little characters. I want them to be happy with each other but I want me to be happy with who they are too!

Gosh, I wrote so much! Ooops. :-)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee collapsedbop_radar on April 18th, 2008 02:28 am (UTC)
When you come back to LJ, you don't mess around.
It's just that the pilots have colonised my brain again. I don't quite have insomnia again but I may soon...

But I don't know if the certainty is really hers. She's been physically connected to this map (i.e. migraines of destiny). She has to follow because she wants to, but it also physically hurts her to jump away from the path. How much choice does she have other than to be determined?
I do agree with that: I think the centredness I see in her stems directly from her death-rebirth-findingEarth experience. And therefore it's not necessarily personal to her: I was trying to express that in the post. And I'm not suggesting that all their problems are magically fixed. Both of them still have immense obstacles to overcome in their lives--but those are external and surface-level, rather than being an internal struggle. Kara's not questioning the fact that she found Earth: she totally believes she did. She's not thinking 'maybe I should give up trying to convince people'--she's listening to her destiny calling her. So is Lee. I don't know. I guess we're seeing different things in them right now.

It seemed to me they are saying good-bye to who they used to be. That's it in nutshell for me
That's a really interesting take on it. It's not exactly how I read it, but it does kind of work for me. With Lee this was definitely an episode about leaving his old life behind--complete with a bit of grieving about that. Even if he's happy about the change, it's a HUGE thing and there's a reason I spent the whole episode sobbing: I will miss pilot!Lee immensely. Perhaps you're going through an equivalent mourning for Kara? Except that what she's facing is so much harder and doesn't seem so likely to lead to success right now. I have faith she'll come through this, because she's Kara. But I can see how if I was in her pov, I'd be fretful.

But who are they now? Will remnants of the old banter come through? Will they be all grownup and mature now? I don't know and I guess it bugs me
I think they're still 'them'. Perhaps even MORE them than ever before. I think there will still be banter--how could there not be? There was in this scene. But they just weren't ripping shreds off each other emotionally. I'm not going to miss that. You're right that the new dynamic will take some getting used to (although maybe not if they're never on screen together), but I think I just feel an immense amount of relief about it. (But then I'm in Lee-pov and that's what he's feeling right now about Kara's return, so that's hardly surprising...)
daybreak777: found my pathdaybreak777 on April 18th, 2008 07:07 am (UTC)
Hee! Pilots!colonization is totally understandable. :-)

she's listening to her destiny calling her. So is Lee. I don't know. I guess we're seeing different things in them right now.
Nah, I see it, I think. I'm just resisting it. They are growing up. I should just accept it and stop mourning it. Time to put away childish things, eh?

I did want this. Want to see the maturity in them, so I should quit whining about it. :-) So I will! I do feel a sort of zen now. Quiet. I do wish for that for my girl. I quite liked that woman who got out of that pristine Viper so confident, happy, sure.

Mourning for Kara? No. I'm mourning my show. This was only the first of many farewells and it was only the second episode. But that's silly talk. We have 18 to go! And just because you say farewell to one thing, doesn't mean you don't say hello! to something new. Right?

I have never doubted that pilots will come together again before this series ends. Never. I will just try not to think about what happens before or after that. It will happen and it will be a good moment.

I miss you in Lee's pov. Glad to have you and the show back. It's a new day maybe, huh? Dawn. A fresh start for them. That is happy-making. :-)
katiebugs18katiebugs18 on April 17th, 2008 04:29 pm (UTC)
Great post. This is in no way hideously sappy, right now there is no such thing as too sappy when it comes to Pilots!

Both Kara and Lee are more emotionally centred this season...There's an inner stillness and certainty to each of them, regardless of what's going on on the outside.

So true and it's such a relief. It's as if they (and by extension us) can breath a bit easier. For Lee it was the chat with Dad but for Kara, the part where I thought it was glaringly obvious (because we did see under-tones of it before this) is how genuinely happy she seems for Lee. Despite Lee leaving not just Galactica but the Fleet as well (something Kara views as her world) she seems genuinely happy and hopeful for him. I thought it was lovely of her. They've both found their centers, their destiny's, and are comfortable with themselves so now they can really and truly focus on the other in an honest, healthy way.

'Except me' and 'Especially you' were a bit 'wtf' to Lee and Kara themselves, respectively.

To them and to me. But I like your explanation. It works so I'm gonna go with it.

she instead calls out. And then she accepts his kisses. It was very clear that it was Lee kissing Kara, and not the other way around. A receptive Kara Thrace and an acting Lee Adama are so beautiful!

See Kara calling Lee back was pretty much when I turned to goo. I mean she called him. The last time she did that was after their fight in 'KLG1' and at that time he walked away and then we all know how that turned out. I thought it was huge of her to call to him and leave herself open like that. I was pretty much mush after that. But I completely agree, he's the one who truly acts on this. Kara throws it out there but Lee's the one who picks it up and acts and it's beautiful and lovely and oh so amazing.

I still really cannot read this is a closure/ending scene for them in any way.

People see this as an ending? Really? I find that surprising. Because I view it as a beginning. Yeah sure they're being separated in the immediate and physical sense but emotionally they're at a really good place. A place where, when they are reunited, they can pick up and move forward because they've reached some kind of understanding with each other. How can anyone view that scene as an ending scene. The ending/closure scene in that episode was the one between Lee and Dee. THAT was closure, THAT was an ending. Now if Lee would just stop wearing his wedding ring (come on Jamie, you took it off for the mini and 2.5 seasons, you can do it). But Lee and Kara, that's a beginning.

Wow, I am super!sappy. Thank god the next episode is coming soon so that I'll stop being so INSUFFERABLY HAPPY about them.

I'm not even sure the new episode can really do that. Because frankly, we deserve to glow over this for a little while longer. Again, great post.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee smilebop_radar on April 18th, 2008 02:16 am (UTC)
Thank you!

So true and it's such a relief. It's as if they (and by extension us) can breath a bit easier
*nods* It feels as if their inner jangly-ness and jitteriness has evaporated. None of the surface issues are really resolved, but undeerneath there's a stillness.

the part where I thought it was glaringly obvious (because we did see under-tones of it before this) is how genuinely happy she seems for Lee
Mm, yeah the fact that she was able to be that points to a real emotional shift in her. It's incredible that she can feel that way at such a tough time as this so it suggests that what she's gone through is helping her see things in a bigger perspective and with an emotional distance that is rare.

I mean she called him. The last time she did that was after their fight in 'KLG1' and at that time he walked away and then we all know how that turned out. I thought it was huge of her to call to him and leave herself open like that.
Oh, nice reference. I hadn't drawn that parallel myself, but you're right. Because Lee didn't read it the right way then, there's a history of it not working out when she calls out to him. I agree it was incredible to see her do so here--I'm so used to Kara not doing so--and definitely made me all mushy too. Thank you, Kara!

People see this as an ending? Really? I find that surprising. Because I view it as a beginning.
Thank you! Yes, me too. Fandom is odd sometimes.

The ending/closure scene in that episode was the one between Lee and Dee. THAT was closure, THAT was an ending. Now if Lee would just stop wearing his wedding ring
It's odd to me that he IS still wearing it. I don't know what to make of that, because their scene was very much closure. Perhaps the papers haven't been signed yet? Or perhaps he just didn't want to upset Dee by taking it off before he physically left Galactica. Or it was just sloppiness. ;) Not sure.

Because frankly, we deserve to glow over this for a little while longer.
Yay! I'm glad you're revelling in the glow with me. :D
katiebugs18katiebugs18 on April 18th, 2008 09:45 pm (UTC)
It's odd to me that he IS still wearing it. I don't know what to make of that, because their scene was very much closure. Perhaps the papers haven't been signed yet? Or perhaps he just didn't want to upset Dee by taking it off before he physically left Galactica. Or it was just sloppiness. ;) Not sure.

Honestly, I think it's sloppiness. I think Jamie and everyone got so used to him wearing it that no one's really noticed he still is. And if anyone has after the fact they can chalk it up to Lee waiting till the divorce is all signed and sealed or whatever. But I'll be annoyed if he doesn't lose it soon.
jude_judith82: BSG{Kara/Lee}jude_judith82 on April 17th, 2008 07:51 pm (UTC)
You know I think you've actually just worded what I've been feeling. For the first time between Lee and Kara it feels calm. Usually there's so much tension but know it's just feels so right. Not necessarily resigned but something similar to it. When you said inner stillness, excuse the cliche, but you hit the nail on the head.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara glowybop_radar on April 18th, 2008 02:05 am (UTC)
Thank you--I'm glad it resonates with what you are seeing as well.
dianora: bsg lee kara closedianora2 on April 18th, 2008 03:45 am (UTC)
I am rushed and sleepy so I am just going to say:

Yes.

:)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee collapsedbop_radar on April 18th, 2008 03:45 am (UTC)
You are cute and adorable! :)
dianora: bsg lee kara like oxygendianora2 on April 21st, 2008 03:10 pm (UTC)
You're just saying that because I agree with you. ;)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee plottingbop_radar on April 21st, 2008 10:23 pm (UTC)
:p
latteaddict: Especially You - 4x02 - L/Klatteaddict on April 19th, 2008 04:56 am (UTC)
It was a great scene and if it all goes to hell after this, then at least we have it to fall back on. I still don't feel completely comfortable with Lee just moving on literally hours after she returns (which is why I guess they threw in that destiny line from Lee to help explain why). I do understand from a logical side, now that he's no longer in the military, Kara is not his responsibility and she is married and so is he and they literally have nothing in common anymore (externally), but from an emotional side I would've guessed that Lee would have the urge to be around her as much as possible (for at least a little while) considering he thought she was dead for the last two months. I know it's just the way things have to be because of plot, but I don't feel any of the instincts as being natural. Maybe it's just an extension of what you described in your post - They were each respecting the other person's boundaries.

For all the high drama and trauma Kara was going through (as opposed to Lee's life looking up with new and exciting possibilities), she was very serene and focused on Lee as he spoke about his plans. I saw lots of parallels of her actions in previous eps. There was a mixture of Kara telling Lee she was happy for him in Maelstrom, there was the handshake from Captain's Hand (with a healthy dollop of 'are we okay?', There was a dash of Kara from Sacrifice when she turned away in Sickbay leaving Lee to Dee because letting him go was better for him - meaning Kara didn't outright ask Lee to stay), there was a bit of Pegasus where she's facing death (her orders to assassinate Cain) but released Lee from any responsibility and be dragged down with her, and I also saw the same connection like what was already said in your comments about when Kara said Lee's name it was just like when she called out 'Captain' and wanted his forgiveness, except she wanted his love this time.

I have this weird irrational fear about Lee's political career and being associated with Zarek. I'm assuming Lee is taking over Baltar's place and will be representing Caprica, which means he could make opposing decisions to Zarek who represents Saggitaron. Do you think because Zarek knew all about Lee's sordid involvement in the Black Market that he's going to try and control Lee with dirty political tricks, and throwing Shevon back into the mix? (yes, I have a weird brain)

Thanks for your post of Squee! It was a good dose of pilot love!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Boppybop_radar on April 20th, 2008 07:26 am (UTC)
I guess they threw in that destiny line from Lee to help explain why
No, I don't think that's the only reason for that line. But I do think the pilots are being puppeted by TPTB as usual. I would have expected Lee to stick by Kara's side as well, but such is BSG. And it made for this gorgeous scene so I'm not complaining too much.

Do you think because Zarek knew all about Lee's sordid involvement in the Black Market that he's going to try and control Lee with dirty political tricks, and throwing Shevon back into the mix? (yes, I have a weird brain)
Hmm. No I didn't expect that. I do think Zarek will try to play Lee to his own ends but I don't really see how Shevon could possibly be dragged back in. That would be way too random.