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18 June 2008 @ 09:28 pm
Grrr... arrrgh  
I had one hell of a fucking bad day. I could do without fandom being fucktard-ish as well.

Kate says it better than I could.

I can't help seeing in this the sort of catty politics that teach women that you shouldn't ever put yourself forward, that you should be modest and wait for other people to notice how wonderful you are. Because if you DO put yourself forward other women will tear you to shreds for your audacity. How lovely.
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Kate: DC: Babs and Dinah lovemskatej on June 18th, 2008 11:54 am (UTC)
*CLINGS TO YOU*
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Blair/Serenabop_radar on June 18th, 2008 12:08 pm (UTC)
*clings back*
Alexandra Leaving: Rosseau dreamalexandral on June 18th, 2008 12:04 pm (UTC)
** HUGS **
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee!facebop_radar on June 18th, 2008 12:09 pm (UTC)
'sank you!
Cris: Clois - hugduskwillow on June 18th, 2008 12:36 pm (UTC)
*hugs*

And f-in' WORD!
The fandom is at its most obnoxious high at the moment.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Ericabop_radar on June 18th, 2008 12:55 pm (UTC)
Aha. Can you imagine how bad it will get if Erica DOES get more than 13 eps?
Cris: SV - burn in hellduskwillow on June 18th, 2008 01:01 pm (UTC)
Well if that happens I'll be too happy and probably just enjoy the sight of all the heads exploding. >:)
Denise: Lane and Kentkdsch123 on June 18th, 2008 01:11 pm (UTC)
BWAHAHAHAHA!

It would be worth it to see that happen. :D
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lois smirkbop_radar on June 18th, 2008 01:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah, my happy'd definitely drown out the wank, it's true.
Denise: Loiskdsch123 on June 18th, 2008 01:14 pm (UTC)
*hugs*

You know what, Bop? In the end, all of these fandom fluff ups come from this same place, every time. It's sad to me that in this case, if it had been AM or KK putting their names in for Emmy consideration, there'd have been partying in the streets (or at least all over fandom) It's ultimately not about that pre-feminist attitude of keeping yourself modest and quiet - it's that their girls didn't do it first (or at all..)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Feminismbop_radar on June 18th, 2008 01:19 pm (UTC)
I don't know which is worse, you know? But I agree that it does seem very two-faced and biased.
Denise: LoisX2kdsch123 on June 18th, 2008 01:41 pm (UTC)
I don't really know either, to tell you the truth, but it is very two faced and biased. Some of these people are the ones that were very upset when AM almost didn't get resigned - and none of them made issue with the fact that the problem was that AM wanted more money. They made the producers the villains who were going to take Chloe off the show. *eye roll* Letter writing, post card sending and so on were organized, and ultimately, what it was really about was that AM wanted a larger paycheck - you know, because she has to make a living...

I really prefer to stay neutral in these things - but sometimes it's just too much.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lollie yogabop_radar on June 18th, 2008 10:47 pm (UTC)
Yeah... I really do prefer to remain neutral too but every so often it reaches levels that I just can't tolerate any more. When people feel the need to tear down others I usually react with suspicion: why are they expending their energy that way instead of just enjoying whatever it is that they enjoy?
Everywhere and Nowhereallzugern on June 18th, 2008 02:17 pm (UTC)
...catty politics that teach women that you shouldn't ever put yourself forward, that you should be modest and wait for other people to notice how wonderful you are.

FUCKING WORD. I wonder how many men are being bashed for doing the same thing? Okay, CMM, but he hardly counts. If you're allowed to nominate yourself, then what.is.the.problem?? No comprenda.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Blair sulkbop_radar on June 18th, 2008 10:51 pm (UTC)
Me neither! There IS no problem. At the very worst, just giggle at their chances and move along... there's nothing bad about putting yourself out there. Someone smartly pointed out that Tom's been doing the equivalent in getting back out there and doing the Vogue shoot and party circuit. SV is ending. They need to think about their careers. This does not make them 'stupid' or unethical!
DC: Smallville - Loisbananainpyjamas on June 18th, 2008 02:26 pm (UTC)
Oh gee, I wonder why I saw a long train of Chloe and Chlark icons in the ONTD post. Complete with a couple misogynistic Lois icons thrown in for good measure. *rolls eyes*
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lois duhbop_radar on June 18th, 2008 11:21 pm (UTC)
Right! It really makes me want to get out my 'My Lois Lane IS ACTUALLY Lois Lane' icon, y'know? Their bitchy brings out my bitchy, but I'm really trying to rise above it. ;)
jude_judith82: Loisjude_judith82 on June 18th, 2008 04:35 pm (UTC)
I think the thing that sucks most about the double standard is how many women condone it. God sometimes I really hate fandom.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Aishwarya lanternbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:23 am (UTC)
Yes, definitely! And how many women buy into it and DON'T put themselves forward in a similar fashion. This is actually a good reminder to myself not to act with false modesty.
jude_judith82: Moteljude_judith82 on June 19th, 2008 09:58 pm (UTC)
True dat. You know it's not the fact that people don't think she's a lead actress you can have an opinion but the comments are so misogynistic and I think it takes a lot of moxie, bravery, guts whatever to put yourself out there. A lot of actresses, the other two ladies on the cast included, should take a lesson in this.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lois searchingbop_radar on June 22nd, 2008 11:23 am (UTC)
Yeah, for sure! And I really don't think AM or KK would begrudge her it at all. Whether she's a lead or not is definitely contentious, but someone pointed out that CW site refers to SV as 'starring Tom Welling and Erica Durance', so despite her restricted eps, they promote her as a lead. In that case, her nomination category only reflects the network view.
svgurl: lois name callingsvgurl on June 18th, 2008 07:24 pm (UTC)
They have no life. Period. The haters just took this as another reason to start a round of Erica bashing.

Because if you DO put yourself forward other women will tear you to shreds for your audacity.

Seriously. I think that KK & TW are the real leads of this show but if Erica wants to advance, good for her! Just like AM dragged her negotiations forever, Erica is trying to help her own career. So that when SV is over, she can still have a future in acting.

Thanks for linking to that post though! It makes me feel better to see Erica support.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:24 am (UTC)
Yeah, any opportunity to bash Erica/Lois! And yes, it is heartening to see that there is a lot of support for Erica (or simply the principle that women have a right to be assertive and promote themselves) out there.
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K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lois searchingbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:26 am (UTC)
Yeah... I should go grab the 'My Lois Lane is ACTUALLY Lois Lane' icon. ;) Because I fear the answer to your question to a lot of these people is 'Chloe'.
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K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Ericabop_radar on June 22nd, 2008 11:25 am (UTC)
Oh, yeah, I've heard the most horrible things. The 'too blonde' is ridiculous given the show makes her dye her hair light--it's hardly her fault! But it's the bitch/slut/whore comments that really get me riled. There's just no call for that.
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Heather: Dirty Supesmiss_tress on June 18th, 2008 10:18 pm (UTC)
*hugs you* Thank you!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Ericabop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:28 am (UTC)
You're welcome: I dithered over whether to post about it because I do try to stay neutral on most things, and also don't like or handle conflict well. But Kate's post is brilliant and I'm so glad she made it.
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K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Clois Crimsonbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:36 am (UTC)
Yeah, Kate is the best for calling it how she sees it. :) While I really try not to ever fan the flames of wank, sometimes something really needs to be said. And it's great to see people supporting the non-bashers.

They seriously cannot separate fiction and a character from reality, or they purposely don't even attempt to look at the person in reality.
Yeah, having observed this behaviour from some sectors of the fandom over a long time, I'd have to agree with you. It's a repeated pattern of behaviour, not just an isolated incident, and as you say, no attempt is made to recognise or acknowledge the real person they are attacking.

somewhat introverted, soft-spoken, doesn't like confrontation and wants everybody to be happy, down-to-earth, treats others as equals no matter if it's a fan or a co-worker, cares about and appreciates her fans, does charity work, loves her husband, loves her family, loves her work, not afraid to stand up for herself for her work.
That's a great description! That's the impression I have of Erica as well, though I've never met her and can't really know for sure. Just as KK is not Lana, Erica is not Lois. And yes, I find it seriously disrespectful of them to conflate her with her character. It happens a lot though, and yes, a lot of people don't pause and think, and they even deflect or refute evidence that counters their view.

At least it's good to see so many people agreeing with Kate's post. :)
Fleegull: ED  Creditsfleegull on June 19th, 2008 01:54 am (UTC)
Because if you DO put yourself forward other women will tear you to shreds for your audacity. How lovely.

I'm 100% sure that not a single guy posted about Erica being all high on herself for having her name submitted. It's frustrating but it's always the same wank over and over: women hating other women.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Blair yelloqbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:37 am (UTC)
Yup, women hating on other women... it's just so sad.
serenography: LoisExpserenography on June 19th, 2008 03:09 am (UTC)
I"m sorry you had such a bad day. *hugs*

Just remember, the fucktards don't count, really. Because you know.. they're fucktards. :D

(my drunken attempt at humor)(sorry)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee not drunkbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:38 am (UTC)
Hee! Thank you! I think I understand your humour because I'm in a similar place right now. Not quite drunk but it sounds appealling... *moseys to find wind*
legendsinlove: angellegendsinlove on June 19th, 2008 06:48 am (UTC)
It's been nasty. I cannot *believe* how people are insulting Erica over this. Completely low.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lois smirkbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:40 am (UTC)
Yup, it really is. Sadly I *can* believe it but in that way of 'oh no, here we go again, doesn't it ever get better?'
Enderenderwiggin24 on June 19th, 2008 07:14 am (UTC)
forward other women will tear you to shreds for your audacity.
sorry that it had you so upset :(

but isnt it the same with inside of fandom?
other female fans, who do a lot or contribute or promote or announce themselves a lot, will either get called in their face, or behind their backs BNFs and such.
for me its the equivalent of what those female fans are doing to ED.

why do you think, there are not that many self-recs or pimps to the ledger?!?!
the fans i talked to or asked, claim, they are too modest or shy, or their stuff is not good enough.

the thing is, as far as i can see, in 98% of cases , other reasons:
a) either they are waiting for someone , to notice and then do it for them, and tell how wonderful they are, (which then of course, makes them happy), or they dont want to do that, because
b) they fear *rejection* of the editors (OMGZ, my self-worth depends on whether or not , the ledger editors *approve* of me, or link to me.
c) they fear the reaction of their flist, saying, how dare you to so arrogant, and put yourself forward.

*shrugs, thus they are, and thus, i have given up on some*

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Clex here with youbop_radar on June 19th, 2008 08:43 am (UTC)
Re: forward other women will tear you to shreds for your audacity.
I'm less upset now. *g*

And you are absolutely right, Ender! It IS the same phenomenon within the fandom. It's because we tear down people who put themselves forward, and yet none of us benefits from that! And you are right that a lot of people stay quiet because they fear rejection/criticism or they think they need someone else's approval first. And even I have been guilty of this! *admits* So this a good reminder to myself that it's absolutely stupid, that there's nothing wrong with saying 'hey, I made this' or other self-promotion.

Good call!
Enderenderwiggin24 on June 19th, 2008 04:52 pm (UTC)
And you are absolutely right, Ender!
of course, i am!
i am the princess of minions, surpreme lex minion#1!
I am INFALLIBLE!!

i could write a ton more, and an entire essay here for you, BUT SOCCER GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well, maybe some more other reasons:
society: women are TOLD ALL THE SHIT TIME, we have to be perfect, and at the same time , to be modest. by gazllions of mags and movies. with shitty shows like american / german /whatever next top model, including all the psychosis, those girls have.
so, perfection insanity is pretty female.

modesty doesnt go well with a competitive nature and environment:
so, and more, anytime, anyone of us is putting out our work, we are terrified, that we are getting compared with others (I read the other day on one of our mutuals friends post, a guss, why someone would not comment on fics: if you are an author, and you comment on another author, the other author *might* go and read you, and NOT comment, thus avoiding commenting alltogether is solving the fear of rejection. and comparison).

you know, the outcry anytime, there is some sort of competition or ranking list for any kind of fandom art (fics, vids, manips).
DAMN; HOW DARE YOU TO HAVE A JURY TO ELECT, WHAT KIND OF ART IS MORE WORTH or BETTER than the other ??!?! AND HOW DARE YOU TO ENTER your work to that COMPETITION! YOU ARROGANT BITCH; WE NO MORE FRIENDS!
*Murder and mayhem ensues* , because WE DO IT ALL FOR FUN!!!!and NO MONEY INVOLVED!!
PLEASE NO PRESSURE! PLS no comparison.

yaddayadda yuck. I go with my men (my entire crew of male colleagues, coz i work in a job, where 90% of any team is male) and watch soccer.
SO NOW CALL ME A MISOGYNIST !!! coz i do think, men handle the competitiveness thing much better than most women i have ever met.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lex golden fieldbop_radar on June 22nd, 2008 11:03 am (UTC)
Re: And you are absolutely right, Ender!
Hee. That rant was a thing of great beauty. *g*

if you are an author, and you comment on another author, the other author *might* go and read you, and NOT comment, thus avoiding commenting alltogether is solving the fear of rejection. and comparison
Wow! Yes, I can see how people could think like that. And yet... it's so very sad.

And good call on the competitions... I am not competitive at all, and I don't really *get* competition, but I definitely agree that girls in general don't cope with it nearly as well as men. I'm kind of envious of those who deal with it calmly. I aspire to that! It makes me think I should be more pro-competitions in fandom. Hmm.
Ms Cranky Pants of the Depresso Blogbofoddity on June 19th, 2008 06:49 pm (UTC)
Supernatural seems to be pretty excited about Jensen's Emmy possibilities, and I don't understand why women can't be just as happy for other women. Isn't fandom supposed to be a place for solidarity? Sometimes it's so difficult to believe.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Ericabop_radar on June 22nd, 2008 11:06 am (UTC)
Yeah, there's definitely double standards. And I really don't get the backlash against other women either. While, yeah, sometimes I am in fandom for the male characters or actors, I can't help but be 'yay!' about the female characters or actresses that are awesome as well.
Zoi: quote3gomez on June 21st, 2008 03:36 pm (UTC)
Really,try not to bother with those comments...

It's very simple:some people hate certain tv characters and then they tend to pass the hate to the actors who portray the character_which is absurd,of course,and unnecessary and is what actually makes me mad,the most. Next step:bash the actors,no matter what they do.

There's apsolutely NO REASON in such attitudes.Just try to ignore them...I know it's not easy,but the bashers aren't worthy of your time or thought.At all.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Clois Crimsonbop_radar on June 22nd, 2008 10:55 am (UTC)
Usually I have no problem at all tuning out the bashers. But I also appreciate it when people call others on their bad behaviour. And every so often I enjoy shouting about it. :) I am really quite zen.