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07 February 2009 @ 07:21 pm
BSG 4.14 Blood on the Scales  
Sigh.

Well that was shortlived. BSG is back to sucking remarkably fast. I knew last weeks idyll wouldn't last, but I didn't factor on some bonus unwelcome elements entering this episode.

Things I guessed would happen but which nevertheless disappointed me:
- Adama lived
- Roslin lived
- Tigh lived
- Chief lived
- Gaius lived
- Gaeta got killed.

Things I didn't expect but were unbelievably dreadful:
- Zarek killed the Quorum. Well I guess it illustrated what an extremist he is. I hate this less than some other elements because I think it's true to character and I really liked Gaeta's reaction. And it illustrated the way things can spiral out of control so easily.
- Kara/Anders. Ouch. How shortlived was the Kara/Lee teamwork? Sheesh. As soon as Sam showed up, it was over. And then of COURSE he got melodramatically shot and bled all over her and she had to be All About Sam and abandon Lee again. There's only two ways this will end: 1) he dies the martyr's death I predicted and Kara never gets over it or 2) he recovers slowly and they get back together and work through things. Either way, there goes my Kara again... Makes a farce of the kiss and Kara/Lee team stuff last week. She just wished he was Sam, let's face it. ETA: Just to clarify: I'm not dissing on Kara for feeling compassionately towards a dying husband. My issue is (if it's not obvious) with the incredibly contrived writing again. Same issue as with the Lee/Dee 'date'.
- Adama and Roslin shared ANOTHER teary romantic moment. *yawns* Enough already!
- Gaius had sex. Gratuitously. Again. Clearly three eps without it were TOO MANY.
- The Cylons waffled around as they are wont to do but I did rather like their inclination to bugger off and leave the humans to it. Sensible, kids!
- Adama gets a chance to explain to one of his crew why he should still support him even though he supports a Cylon alliance and Adama's reaction is... to tie him up. Wow. That's bad even for Adama. I actually had suspense in that moment! I thought that's where the real dialogue would begin. OMG MY NAIVETY! No dialogue. Just death. Adama is seriously SO bad at PR. I mean, of course it looks like he's in bed with the Cylons when he's having smoochy reunions with Tigh in front of the crew! *rolls eyes* Grow a brain, Adama! This is no way to motivate people.
- OMG, LEEEEEEEEE, why did you condone the exectutions? Why didn't you advocate for dialogue between the mutineers and the leadership first? Don't you see that this is only entrenching Adama's tyrant-like status?
- The message of this episode: it's ok to kill people without trial as long as you're the good guys.

I have no words for the BAD of that last bit. BSG will never be the same.

Things which were unexpectedly awesome:
- Romo! OMG YAY! Romo returns and is wonderful. He even momentarily considers leaving Anders to die! Whee! \o/ (I'm cool with him not actually doing so because that would make him horrible, but I like that he considered it. *g*)
- Mention of Jake!
- Lee. Was awesome. Loved his snark at Kara: 'it would have been if you'd done it'. :) Also his determination to reach his father. Pity his father is a dick.
- The Gaius/Gaeta scene. Beautiful, moving, creepy and gorgeous. I just want to draw hearts around it.
- Sam got shot. *beams* Karma, dude. Stings.

I'm going to be so cranky if Sam dies. I bet he does just to spite me. Then Kara will never have clearly chosen Lee over Sam and my shipper days will be over. After that, my only hope for liking anything else on this show is Lee realising that his father is a dick and there's no democracy and just taking charge himself and sorting shit out. What's the chances? Pfft.
 
 
Current Location: sofa of disbelief
Current Mood: disappointeddisappointed
 
 
 
Call Me OneTrack: k/l SMOOCHcallmeonetrack on February 7th, 2009 12:53 pm (UTC)
Wow you're back to hating it, huh? Aw, sad. I like when Boppy is happy!!

I do agree that it was all resolved pretty tidily for Adama & Co., eh? I also loved the Gaeta/Baltar scene (although I still don't get whether it was for reals because how on Earth was Gaeta not restrained/in the brig for that convo? I mean Adama isn't that naive to let the leader of the rebellion just swan around untethered smoking cigarillos with Baltar in nicely appointed quarters, is he?)

Lee in the scene with the grenade?? ::DIES:: So hot and awesome. I haven't loved Lee like that in a long frakkin' time. Captain Apollo is indeed still in there somewhere.

Now let me defend my girl for a bit:
Kara/Anders. Ouch. How shortlived was the Kara/Lee teamwork? Sheesh. As soon as Sam showed up, it was over. And then of COURSE he got melodramatically shot and bled all over her and she had to be All About Sam and abandon Lee again. There's only two ways this will end: 1) he dies the martyr's death I predicted and Kara never gets over it or 2) he recovers slowly and they get back together and work through things. Either way, there goes my Kara again... Makes a farce of the kiss and Kara/Lee team stuff last week. She just wished he was Sam, let's face it.

C'mon now. It was okay for Lee to go on a date with his ex-wife but Kara can't show concern for her CURRENT HUSBAND WHO IS BLEEDING FROM THE NECK AND SEEMINGLY ABOUT TO DIE? I think she'd be castigated for being a cold bitch if she wasn't concerned about him, so I think she's screwed either way here. :(

Besides, if he does die a martyr's death....well so did Dee, so doesn't it even the scales a bit? I think there will be loving words exchanged next week (because Kara does love him) but there's no way they're going to get back together in a romantic way. The Space preview heavily focuses on Sam and I think we're going to delve more into his destiny/final Fiver status.

ETA: I can see how the parallels to what's going on with SV lately could possibly make this more annoying for you too though!

One thing I really loved about this week's episode was all the humor!! This show has found its sense of humor again. Lee's "It would have been funny if you did it." Romo's "But I'm not a very good shot." Tigh had some good wisecracks too.

And I REALLY LOVED the fact that Gaeta called Bill on the fact that he loves the ship and the idea of his people more than he loves his people on an individual level. I've been waiting for someone to say that to Bill for ages. But he's going to disregard/ignore it of course.

Edited at 2009-02-07 12:54 pm (UTC)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee!facebop_radar on February 7th, 2009 10:12 pm (UTC)
I still don't get whether it was for reals because how on Earth was Gaeta not restrained/in the brig for that convo?
Yeah... I thought at first it was a flashback. Now could it be a dream? I guess the show makes so little sense though it could actually have happened.

I can see I've caused some confusion. I have no issue with Kara showing compassion for her dying husband. What I take issue with is the writing, which very clearly has wussed out on Kara making a clear decision or addressing any of the complex emotions between her and Anders.

I wasn't exactly a fan of the Lee/Dee shit either, if you recall. I was actually MORE pissy about that, to tell the truth. This Anders-dies-a-martyr's-death business was more what I expected whereas the Lee/Dee date was out-of-the-blue dreadful.

I do think there is a difference though between Lee and Kara--Lee made it obvious he was there for Kara if she wanted him (in the brig scene). Ever since then she hasn't acted on it. Yeah, Lee had the nostalgia-fest with Dee, but he wasn't saying he was actively in love with her--which is what you're saying Kara will say to Sam.

I also think if it had been anyone but Sam shot, Kara would have left them to die. She was such a hardass last ep, all about the killing and the mission. But Sam's different. That's fine, but it gives me my answer about her feelings for him.

The Space preview heavily focuses on Sam and I think we're going to delve more into his destiny/final Fiver status.
Kill me now.

Yeah, I do like the return of humour! It returned a couple of eps ago and was most welcome. :D

I REALLY LOVED the fact that Gaeta called Bill on the fact that he loves the ship and the idea of his people more than he loves his people on an individual level. I've been waiting for someone to say that to Bill for ages.
Yeah, good call! :D That was glorious. If only he hadn't been shot in the head for stating the truth.
Call Me OneTrackcallmeonetrack on February 7th, 2009 10:32 pm (UTC)
I thought at first it was a flashback. Now could it be a dream? I guess the show makes so little sense though it could actually have happened.
The writer's interview with Mo Ryan at the Chiago Tribune says it was supposed to be tricksy on purpose. Apparently it was real and in Gaeta's quarters (an RDM idea to make it tricksy. eh.)

the writing, which very clearly has wussed out on Kara making a clear decision or addressing any of the complex emotions between her and Anders.
Ah yes. I think next week will be the end of the Kara/Sam romantic stuff. Just my spec.

Lee made it obvious he was there for Kara if she wanted him (in the brig scene). Ever since then she hasn't acted on it.
Really? Hmm I didn't get that at all from the brig scene. I thought it was a "let me give you some confidence/kiss you goodbye so I can go play at destiny too." I wish they'd kept the extended bit with Aurora, that was a much bigger commitment between them I think and then I would've read it as Lee extending a promise of sorts to Kara. (But then the Lee/Dee stuff REALLY makes no sense...sigh. I guess it's best not to try to figure it all out. The writers will do what they do. For contrivance sake I'm sure they're stretching this out to the finale.)

Yeah, good call! :D That was glorious. If only he hadn't been shot in the head for stating the truth.
It'll be interesting to see if/how they resolve this total dictatorship they've worked their way into.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Aishwarya lanternbop_radar on February 7th, 2009 10:38 pm (UTC)
then I would've read it as Lee extending a promise of sorts to Kara.
I read it that way from the very beginning. But then Lee was still in character back then and I always felt in tune with him and understood him at an instinctive level. I certainly wasn't alone in reading it as Lee saying 'I respect that you're still married, but if/when you want me, I am yours'. I loved it. It's the last L/K anything I have loved. I'll end my personal canon there, I suspect because everything after that stings.

And yes, you see how the Lee/Dee made no sense? That's why I was so ragey about the stupid contrived writing. It made no character sense. And yet, that's where you run smack bang into the wall of 'give up, the writers will do what they want'. There's no character integrity at all.

f/how they resolve this total dictatorship they've worked their way into.
Honestly? I don't think the writers see a problem with it.
brokenmnemonic: Kiss The Admiralbrokenmnemonic on February 8th, 2009 07:39 am (UTC)
Honestly? I don't think the writers see a problem with it.
But it's Adama... what can possibly be wrong with him as sheriff Admiral?
daybreak777: gaeta - excuse me?daybreak777 on February 7th, 2009 02:09 pm (UTC)
he dies the martyr's death I predicted and Kara never gets over it
No! She'll get over him. She loved Lee first. History books are gonna write about them, Bop. Yes.

it's ok to kill people without trial as long as you're the good guys.
Sigh. Yes. I don't know who's good or bad anymore. Last night I was ragey and taking frakking names! Now I don't know. I like some of those people. It's all very bizarre.

After that, my only hope for liking anything else on this show is Lee realising that his father is a dick and there's no democracy and just taking charge himself and sorting shit out. What's the chances? Pfft.
I don't know. What was that bit in Revelations about? About childen and parents? Though if the kids were going to take over, why not in this episode? And you're right. At least Gaeta gave Adama a farce of a trial. Gaius got a trial. My boy got a bullet, oh, don't even get me started.

Even though they killed my Gaeta, this was not a bad episode at all. Why? Anything that makes me feel on this level is good storytelling and acting all around. And the interesting thing is there was suspense! I actually didn't know how it all would play out until the end.

All I have for now. I want you to be happy too. What if Sam lives and Kara gets together with Lee anyway? I know. Crazytalk. :-)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee in darknessbop_radar on February 7th, 2009 10:16 pm (UTC)
Sorry, DB, it's a dealbreaker for me: Kara had to choose Lee while Sam was still alive. She didn't.

I think Gaeta's death is easier for me to process in some ways because I already hated Adama and all he stands for. It is harder for you because you love some of those people very much. Poor sweetie!

if the kids were going to take over, why not in this episode?
Why not 5 episodes ago when Roslin was on the basestar? She should have died then, Lee should have remained president, and Kara should have deposed Adama for being an alcoholic lunatic. Just my personal opin there, obvy!

At least Gaeta gave Adama a farce of a trial. Gaius got a trial. My boy got a bullet, oh, don't even get me started.
I know. That actually made me end the whole episode in total rage after having remained at a general level of 'meh' through the rest of it. It was predictable but it wasn't actively appalling until that final bit. But the fact that there was no trial just makes a farce of the whole show, as far as i'm concerned. You see... I have rage, just in a different way to you.

Don't worry about me being happy. WAAAAAAY too late for that.
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Jamie whateverbop_radar on February 7th, 2009 10:18 pm (UTC)
I did love Tigh's snark at Sam. ;)

I would have been more moved by the death of the Quorum had they not always been so absurd in their Greek-Chorus-ness.

And yeah, um, it's going to be a damn empty meeting.
thrace_adama: shooting rangethrace_adama on February 8th, 2009 05:24 pm (UTC)
I LOVE this icon! Sorry, just had to add that. :) Too awesome.
m_a_r_i_k_s: black&whitem_a_r_i_k_s on February 7th, 2009 03:55 pm (UTC)
And then of COURSE he got melodramatically shot and bled all over her and she had to be All About Sam and abandon Lee again. There's only two ways this will end: 1) he dies the martyr's death I predicted and Kara never gets over it or 2) he recovers slowly and they get back together and work through things. Either way, there goes my Kara again... Makes a farce of the kiss and Kara/Lee team stuff last week. She just wished he was Sam, let's face it.

I think you're overreacting here Bop.
Tell me, did you expect Kara to leave Sam bleeding to death in the hallway? Lee was going to help her carry Anders to sickbay, he actually forgot about his father for some time and he would to anything for her at that moment and Kara knew it! So being the soldier she is - she had to tell him to go after his dad to refocus him on the mission they had. Also, she was so desperate to make him go because she was scared as hell to risk losing him and the Old Man as well. She shouted his name like four times to get his attention! There's a few second of pure understanding between them in that scene... they just look into each other's eyes so closely and there's no need to say anything.

And think about this. Lee wouldn't have left Dee in the same situation! I get it and I respect it in Kara as much as I do in Lee. In fact, I wouldn't respect Kara as much as I do if she just walked over her wounded husband and abandoned him just like that. There could be nothing more OOC. The fact that she stayed with Sam doesn't mean that there's some epic "soulmates/love to death" meaning in her actions. She just cares about him. You might not like it but you better accept that both Lee and Kara care for their spouses.

So this scene doesn't taint the last episode's L/K kiss for me.

Also there were some great L/K moments in this episode."It would have been funny if you did it" is so much them! I adore my Lee turning into Starbuck here and her being absolutely bewildered about it :D
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee awesome sexybop_radar on February 7th, 2009 10:25 pm (UTC)
Oh, I can see I've caused some confusion. My issue is not with Kara's compassion for a dying husband, but with the contrived writing that sees not only Lee toying with Dee again, but also Kara realising her True Love for Sam just before he (I'm assuming) dies. Yes, the two of them have been treated equally by the writers. But I find both instances of writing absolutely ridiculously contrived and MASSIVE copouts on the part of the writers. Oh, how convenient that Kara doesn't actually have to address any of the complex issues in her relationship with Sam (he's a Cylon, he lied to her, she doesn't know who SHE is). I am angry because I predicted this would happen and it renders any Lee/Kara anything from now on a complete joke to me. I'm angry at the writers, not at Kara.

I have to admit I did miss the moment of 'pure understanding' that you spoke of. It felt more like Lee realising he couldn't count on Kara to me, but completely understanding why because she needed to be with her husband.

You might not like it but you better accept that both Lee and Kara care for their spouses.
I do. I always have. But I bet you there IS some epic soulmates aspect to Sam's death. And even if there isn't... Lee made it clear that he was there for Kara if she wanted him. Kara has ignored that. If she turns to Lee after Sam dies then that looks like she's treating Lee as second choice. Which is how she's always treated him. I want better than that.

this scene doesn't taint the last episode's L/K kiss for me.
For me, it put it in perspective. She would have kissed anyone with that much adrenalin pumping through her. That's ok. But I just should remember it doesn't mean anything when she does that.

I did love the moment you loved as well, with Lee messing with Kara. It was adorable.
m_a_r_i_k_s: black&whitem_a_r_i_k_s on February 8th, 2009 12:32 pm (UTC)
Lee toying with Dee again, but also Kara realising her True Love for Sam just before he (I'm assuming) dies. Yes, the two of them have been treated equally by the writers. But I find both instances of writing absolutely ridiculously contrived and MASSIVE copouts on the part of the writers.

You see, Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with, it made sense, since Kara wasn’t there. His long lingering kiss seemed very odd though which was definitely the fault of bad writing. With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me, it all feels very real and in character imo. I didn’t feel any vibes of Big True Love between them at all in this episode, so those are just your assumptions based on what exactly? – I bet they’re based on previous experience with L/K but they’ve changed a lot Bop. They’ve grown up. I believe that Kara won’t end up with a huge guilt complex over Anders getting shot or dying; a lot of people had died, it’s stronger than her and frankly she has many issues to think about besides her role in his probable death. There’s been enough of Scar and Act of Contrition.

I have to admit I did miss the moment of 'pure understanding' that you spoke of. It felt more like Lee realising he couldn't count on Kara to me, but completely understanding why because she needed to be with her husband.

He can always count on her… this moment was all about her counting on him to complete what they’ve started TOGETHER and his gratitude for pushing him further and understanding that she has to stay.
You see, I perceive this moment differently, it actually reminds me of Razor in some gut wrenching ways. To me it showed Kara acting like an officer in the truest sense of word staying with a wounded comrade whom she cares about and stays loyal to and reminding Lee about the mission at hand thus sacrificing her own strong desire and need to have him by her side helping her. She gets his first urge to stay with her, she want him too… as much as he wants to stay. But. What Lee sees reflected in her eyes is that desperation to get him going and her furious demand not to get all chivalrous with her now, NOT TO FORGET about the mission because of her and GET HIS FATHER and then return control over the ship; Lee sees it and he is grateful to her for reminding him who he has to be, for bringing the strongest side of him to the surface *again* (because for a moment he was “selfishly” all about himself and Kara) although it breaks his heart to leave her there undefended.

Oh pilots!

Their whole team work in the last two episodes is pure Love… How Kara kills for him, saves him, clears his overthinking head with that kiss and reassures him they can do it together just him and her, Starbuck and Apollo, how he quickly finds focus she gives him, turns into Apollo… how they feel every step and movement of each other like ONE… like in good old days… and he patiently awaits for her to hand him the gun belt *lol*, how Lee in turn sais they can take all six guards by themselves when she doesn’t believe it’s possible and then shines in his brilliant grenade trick which takes her aback… So very them! I love this dance based on instinct and deep innate connection they share.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on February 9th, 2009 09:41 am (UTC)
I must thank you for taking the time to write these comments. I am actually very moved. Very few people care enough to argue with me about BSG these days, and I appreciate you doing so when you think I'm overreacting. I probably am. I guess I need someone to slap me sometimes. I'm just so fed up and disappointed with the way the show cops out on the big issues and on the ships as well.

Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with,
I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it if it hadn't been right after they found destroyed!Earth. There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.

With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me,
You don't feel like they're trying to balance the scales? Lee got to have his Dee flirtation and then he died, now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no?

Like you don't see where I'm getting my perspective from, I don't really see why you feel there's space for optimism. Kara's stuck by Sam, even after she got back. She's still married to him, she sleeps with him, she stood with him when they found Earth... I think she loves him, deeply, completely. Otherwise we would have seen her avoid him.

To me it showed Kara acting like an officer in the truest sense of word staying with a wounded comrade whom she cares about and stays loyal to
Ugh. I just can't agree there. Firstly, she's not staying with Sam because he's a comrade, she's staying with him because he's her husband. Secondly, as a fellow soldier, Sam has never been treated 'equally' by Kara. After he shot Gaeta did he get disciplined? no, he got to go on an away mission with her. She favours him the same way she used to favour Zak. She's not objective here at all. And that doesn't mean she's a terrible person, it's normal to feel this way, I imagine. But I can't view her actions as those of a 'good officer'.

I'm really impressed with how moved you were by this scene. I feel like I should watch it again and try to see it through your eyes. I really didn't see what you are talking about at all. I did see Lee trying to be honourable and do the right thing--and I believe he had genuine compassion for Sam, who I know he respects (foolishly!).

I wish I could still be in the raptures you're in.
m_a_r_i_k_s: black&whitem_a_r_i_k_s on February 9th, 2009 11:35 am (UTC)
I must thank you for taking the time to write these comments. I am actually very moved. Very few people care enough to argue with me about BSG these days, and I appreciate you doing so when you think I'm overreacting.

Yep, I care about you finding the show enjoyable at least to some extent. I’m very sorry you’re disappointed and I’m just sharing my positive perspective as I know that it might help slightly even if you don’t feel the way I do and don’t agree with me ;)

I’d had my highs and lows with BSG, there were moments of desperation for me similar to yours in the second half of S2 and in S3, so I understand the state of mind you're probably in. I’ll just continue to disagree with you and point you out the reasons why if you don’t mind.

There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.

I see. But the way I perceive it is that Lee was also shocked with this revelation about Earth. His dad started drinking, Roslin completely shut out the external world around her… There’s a moment when you can’t react, you can’t make further decisions or deal with those big issues at hand, you have to just come out of that state of numbness and utter disbelief and I think Lee’s coping mechanism here was this need to talk to someone close enough that had to be satiated. Dee was that someone, because there wasn’t any other person available at that moment and she’s technically his wife and they’ve come a long way together. It made sense to me up until the point when he kissed her, which was Moore’s stupid manner to reinforce the drama of her suicide.

now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no?

Sure it’s not a coincidence, Lee and Kara have to deal with their spouses before they can even attempt to give each other another chance – and I’m sure this is where it’s coming. Of course it’s a trite move to make a spouse take a bullet and have Kara sit beside his bed. I’m not saying I like it. But I believe that the mortal danger Sam’s in is the only way for her to start addressing the problems that she’s been avoiding to face out of confusion and fear.

Like you don't see where I'm getting my perspective from

Oh I see it, Bop. I could focus on all the worrying aspects as well if I wanted too. But all in all, I just see this differently and I’m not trying to make you change your mind, I’m merely sharing my standpoint.

She's still married to him, she sleeps with him, she stood with him when they found Earth... I think she loves him, deeply, completely. Otherwise we would have seen her avoid him.

I disagree completely. She’s been avoiding him since her return!
Yes she’s married to him, she didn’t exactly have time to ‘unmarry’ him with her visions and obsession about Earth, did she? She slept with him only because he kept pushing and that was a totally ugly… old-Kara behavior under huge stress when she was about to lose her frakking mind. But don’t turn a blind eye to the fact that she told him their marriage had been a joke, an attempt for her to escape since day one! That’s a huge admission for Kara and that’s what really matters. As for standing with him when they found Earth, Bop… this is absolutely jealous Lee talking in you! :)) Just try to come out of Lee’s perspective of hurt pride and heart and see the real picture. She didn’t CHOOSE to stand with Anders, she chose to have a quiet moment alone and come to the memorial hall and stand with Kat… or the memory of Kat and all those people she knew that gave their lives for the dream of Earth that Kara thought humans were about to see coming true. It was like a quiet prayer… a few minutes to honor their memory and their sacrifice, a very private moment… And Sam approached from behind and invaded that private space for a hundredth time because he doesn’t seem to get that Kara Thrace is done with him. Just rewatch it! The expression on her face changes when she notices him by her left side, she doesn’t look at him, her body tenses and she clenches her jaw.
m_a_r_i_k_s: pilotsm_a_r_i_k_s on February 9th, 2009 11:36 am (UTC)
Firstly, she's not staying with Sam because he's a comrade, she's staying with him because he's her husband.

She’s staying with him because he’s her husband and a fellow crewmate. All I’m saying is that she would’ve done the same thing for ANYone. Had it been Helo to get a bullet, she would’ve stayed with him all the same!
m_a_r_i_k_s: Redm_a_r_i_k_s on February 8th, 2009 12:40 pm (UTC)
I am angry because I predicted this would happen and it renders any Lee/Kara anything from now on a complete joke to me. I'm angry at the writers, not at Kara.

Ok, we’ve established you’re not angry at Kara, that’s already something. :) You have every right to be angry at writers… just don’t make too many assumptions. What we saw with Kara and Sam in BOTS doesn’t pose any threat to L/K, it can’t even be called shippy, more importantly, it doesn’t diminish the strength of feelings and uniqueness of the bond between Lee and Kara, on the contrary, they’ve come to accept their feelings and be at peace with them. Every second of their shared screen time in S4 screamed of how very much in love our pilots (with a clear accent on Kara this time! finally!) are. She never laughed and smiled with Sam the way she did with Lee… and the beaming looks of adoration she was giving him in Six Of One and Revelations mean everything.

But I bet you there IS some epic soulmates aspect to Sam's death.

I don’t think so. I just think that she’s somehow connected to all of the final Five and we’re about to learn how and maybe why exactly. I think this is a way to address some of those issues about him being a cylon, her not knowing what she is. Don’t forget that Kara’s a deeply damaged woman and she’s been through all new kinds of hell lately… she wouldn’t think about or deal with those issues without some pushing circumstances. She’s too confused scared and doesn’t have as many emotional strength as we’d like her to have. I think we’ll have to forgive her that. And Sam’s current condition and his revelations he’s about to spill may be those pushing circumstances.

And even if there isn't... Lee made it clear that he was there for Kara if she wanted him. Kara has ignored that.

Oh don’t get all Lee-fangirly with me, I’m a fangirl myself and I get that perspective! :) But if we’re being objective - Lee never made it clear that she could have him in a romantic sense of word after her death Openly! He never said that. He never divorced Dee. In Six Of One the official scene was all about their love and his support and acceptance of her as Kara (even if cylon) and about acceptance of their need to separate to fulfill the destinies that seemed more important to both of them than being together at that moment – Lee representing people’s will in quorum and Kara finding Earth.

Even Jamie told us in one of his last interviews that “there's a lot to be decided about what her return means, and Lee just accepted that in S4.0 because accepting it is easier than confronting it. He loves her. He always will. But Lee walked away from that love and left it unexplored; they need to understand what has actually happened”.

If she turns to Lee after Sam dies then that looks like she's treating Lee as second choice.

I think Kara did choose... she told Lee “except me” in Six of One and looked at him like she wanted him to shoot her for making those mistakes, like she wanted to turn back time and fix everything and was acknowledging his right to never forgive her or give her a second chance as well as her own eternal need for him. Since then Earth and mission were first for her and Lee and no other man – was second.
We haven't seen her with Sam in a close manner since the Demetrius (where BTW, she told him their marriage was a lie, a way for her to run away, told him to leave her alone and then when he refused had sex with him in her ugly old fashion since she was under much stress) and even last night, she ignored him and went to check Helo first until Sam was shot. Now I just hope she gets to say that the choice’s been made years ago and/or for Sam to finally let her go and accept that they were never meant to be.

This is ridiculous what a small act of concern and loyalty to the man Kara cares about can do to shippers.

But I just should remember it doesn't mean anything when she does that.

Like hell it doesn’t!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee frak betide!bop_radar on February 9th, 2009 09:54 am (UTC)
they’ve come to accept their feelings and be at peace with them. Every second of their shared screen time in S4 screamed of how very much in love our pilots (with a clear accent on Kara this time! finally!) are
Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't agree at all. I wish I did! I really really wish I did! But I have never felt our pilots were further apart. Six of One was the last time I felt they were really 'together'. I got my hopes up in the last episode but saw more practical comradeness than shippiness (which is fine! at least that's something!) but every other moment on screen in S4? Has seemed really cold and distant to me. It felt like Kara deliberately pulled back from that moment of intimacy in Six of One.

Sam’s current condition and his revelations he’s about to spill may be those pushing circumstances.
You obviously know stuff I don't. I haven't even seen the trailer, but I take it this is based on that? It sounds terrible. I don't think I want to see the next episode. But hey, I better just face up to it. I do think Kara needs to deal with the issues with Sam and I'd rather she did so than have Sam die without her doing so. Like you say, she kind of needs to be pushed into dealing with these things.

In Six Of One the official scene was all about their love and his support and acceptance of her as Kara
I always saw even the official version as way, waaaaay more than that. I saw it as a non-verbal but nonetheless clear pledge to Kara that he would be there if/when she wanted him, but that it was up to her. I think that was very clear to Kara. She promptly ran back to her husband. I think that's pretty crystal clear. Whereas Lee did not sleep with Dee again--and do we know that he didn't divorce Dee? I thought he had.

It was the writers' decision that led to Lee leaving that love 'unexplored'--the writers don't view the Lee/Kara relationship as important any more, and I'm convinced that at least some of them are Kara/Sam shippers.

Since then Earth and mission were first for her and Lee and no other man – was second.
Er did you miss the bits where she was sleeping with her husband or tramping around on Earth with Leoben?

We haven't seen her with Sam in a close manner since the Demetrius
Not true. I read a lot into her choice to be with him when they found Earth, rather than with Lee and Adama, or with the pilots. That was a VERY pointed decision. Despite being the one leading them to Earth, she wanted to be with her husband. Also, she reacted unblinkingly to discovering he was a Cylon (and according to Ron was going to kiss him in joy/acceptance!). I expect we'll see a lot more of that now.

I'm sorry you find it ridiculous, but this is what I've seen on the show. I know its natural for shippers to cling to hope, and hey I got excited myself last week when Lee and Kara were on screen so much together. But really, Kara was just on a massive high about having a fight to fight again. I saw several people comment that Lee 'could have been anyone' and that's sort of how I feel now too--she was happy he had her back, but she's still very much a 'solo' Kara Thrace, and I don't think we should read anything too shippy into them fighting together. At least, we should but the writers don't want us to. ;)
m_a_r_i_k_s: KL_minim_a_r_i_k_s on February 9th, 2009 01:57 pm (UTC)
I got my hopes up in the last episode but saw more practical comradeness than shippiness (which is fine! at least that's something!) but every other moment on screen in S4? Has seemed really cold and distant to me. It felt like Kara deliberately pulled back from that moment of intimacy in Six of One.

He-he. Again, I don’t agree. She’s been very close with him in Revelations and SAGN… She was willing to tell him everything about finding her body on the surface. That is HUGE.

And in Revelations… oh my… just look at her shining face in Adama’s quarters, she’s beaming at Lee, flirting, calling him Mr. Prez, saying they’ll walk those halls together. She stands so close… she’s practically leaning into his body near the table - that’s how much she wants his proximity. She’s so in love and so openly it hurts to watch. But Lee’s too engulfed in his father’s absence and probable death, that’s why he comes across as a cold and distant one in this scene.

It’s such an irony that many Kara-fans find that Lee has been cold to Kara since Six of One. I can’t agree with both points of view maybe because I’m a Lee fan and Kara fan two in one. They’re connected more than ever... even when their moods don’t match.

I haven't even seen the trailer, but I take it this is based on that?

Yep, exactly. This was the first preview trailer I watched since S4.5 started. I’m trying to stay spoiler free but after BOTS just couldn’t help myself.

It sounds terrible. I don't think I want to see the next episode.

Oh, this will certainly be a very hard episode to watch! I just have to remind myself that Anders is badly injured and she thinks he might die....so it’s natural for her to focus on him. It doesn't mean she will run off and have his babies.

At least with SAGN I didn’t know that there were Lee/Dee scenes coming. Although who knows what’s better to be prepared and to know beforehand or to take it all in one unexpected swallow.

I always saw even the official version as way, waaaaay more than that. I saw it as a non-verbal but nonetheless clear pledge to Kara that he would be there if/when she wanted him, but that it was up to her.

Of course! Because you saw it from Lee’s perspective first and foremost. He does tell her all that in a non verbal form. But Kara’s too damaged and insecure to be certain. For Kara what he did means that he accepted her and believed her, which is a huge relief, but it doesn’t mean “come back and if you’re willing to try again – I’m yours”. That’s too much of a step and they need to really talk about it and verbalise it.
Let me tell you that for her it hurt that he came to see her in the brig only when he was going to leave Galactica and when Lee walked in and she said the bit about "except me" and Lee did respond with Especially you... he did all that handshaking and once again turned and was about to walk away! And it was Kara who said....LEE.....which brought him back instantly. But he was walking away....what if she hadn't said “Lee!”. It's all there. He's hesitates and she's also uncertain and vulnerable.
m_a_r_i_k_s: pilotsm_a_r_i_k_s on February 9th, 2009 01:59 pm (UTC)
Sorry, LJ won't let me post this in one comment.

I think that was very clear to Kara. She promptly ran back to her husband. I think that's pretty crystal clear.

No it wasn’t that clear to her unfortunately. She always has tremendous doubt; especially after all they’ve been through. We’re talking about pilots trying to be romantically involved here and Six of One scene isn’t enough to make moves in that direction, not for Lee just as not for Kara. And Lee’s still married to Dee and she to Sam… they’re too grown up now to attempt being close in a romantic sense of word before they deal with their marriages.

And don’t exaggerate, she didn’t run back to Anders, it was Anders who insisted on being with her on that mission and imposed himself on her. I’ve talked about Demetrius above; had there been Lee on that ship – her destructive sex with Sam would never have happened, just as had there been Kara on Galactica – Lee would have never gone to have a drink with Dee/kissed her. Do we have to conclude that Lee ran off to Dee to renew his vows and abandoned Kara on Earth because he doesn’t love her as well? That’s bullshit.

Whereas Lee did not sleep with Dee again--and do we know that he didn't divorce Dee? I thought he had.

Sex doesn’t necessarily mean something to Kara, shouldn’t you know that by now? Especially in such an angry destructive form.
Lee definitely didn’t divorce Dee, they both were wearing their rings till her last day. They just haven’t been living together since Baltar’s trial.

It was the writers' decision that led to Lee leaving that love 'unexplored'--the writers don't view the Lee/Kara relationship as important any more

Oh they do Bop! And Jamie was totally talking from Lee’s POV. What is interesting about his words is that he implies that Lee is not certain, he doesn’t know what she is and he's chosen to not spend time thinking about the implications of what her being back means because it’s too painful to think beyond the fact that she's there and she's real. They both haven’t dealt with her being back… and what it means to them.

Er did you miss the bits where she was sleeping with her husband or tramping around on Earth with Leoben?

Man… you will never let go of that Demetrius thing, will you? Leoben was just following her like a dog… she didn’t invite him for a walk.

Not true. I read a lot into her choice to be with him when they found Earth, rather than with Lee and Adama, or with the pilots. That was a VERY pointed decision. Despite being the one leading them to Earth, she wanted to be with her husband.

OMG. REWATCH. I already said that above. Absolutely not the way I see it!

Also, she reacted unblinkingly to discovering he was a Cylon

Oh really? Rewatch! *headdesk* And I don’t know what the hell RDM wanted her to do, but I know for sure what Katee PLAYED. I saw it with my own eyes… shock, betrayal, all reflected on her face… she played it like Kara was sick and restraining herself from throwing up. Watch my last vid Diamonds, I nail that scene and her vision very pointedly there. The fact that Kara doesn’t get a chance to act on that feeling of betrayal (unlike Adama) is another tragedy… she doesn’t have time… and then she discovers her own body and it calls everything into question.

I saw several people comment that Lee 'could have been anyone' and that's sort of how I feel now too

Lee is not anyone, has never been – only he can make her feel that way.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee solacebop_radar on February 15th, 2009 12:52 am (UTC)
I really want to respond more thoroughly, but the gist of it is that your comments gave me cause to stop and (re)think my assumptions about Kara/Lee and Kara/Sam. I really have felt that the writers ditched K/L for K/S... but your heartfelt explanation of how you don't feel that's the case at all has made me question that. It is true that I tend to be so heavily in Lee's pov that I feel a lot of jealousy on his behalf. It doesn't help that I find Sam despicable.

I have not yet watched this week's episode--I have obviously had a lot of other priorities this week, and now that I have the time, I find myself pretty unwilling to as I gather it's all about Sam. I fear that if I watch it will undo what you've said here and I'll be back to thinking 'yeah, the writers think Kara/Sam is the OTP'. When, actually... you really persuaded me otherwise here, even if you didn't set out to. I'd prefer to believe what you believe: that K/L is still important to them, even if they won't let the two characters be together.

Thank you so much. No-one else has been able to shake my perspective before--their arguments have sounded so hollow and weak and wishful thinking. *hugs*
m_a_r_i_k_s: pilotsm_a_r_i_k_s on February 16th, 2009 11:46 pm (UTC)
It is true that I tend to be so heavily in Lee's pov that I feel a lot of jealousy on his behalf.

I know, my own peak point of jealousy was in the late S2 and then during the hiatus when I was so heartbroken I thought I’d never recover… I had serious doubts over Kara’s choices and her obsession with the rescue mission etc.

It doesn't help that I find Sam despicable.

When it comes to Sam, I can’t find a single character trait that I’d personally find worth genuine respect. I’ve always disliked him heavily. And don’t tell me he’s HOT… I think that’s the worst argument in favor of Sam’s character that this fandom has ever put forward. ;)

…now that I have the time, I find myself pretty unwilling to as I gather it's all about Sam.

It’s not so much about Sam as it is about the cylons in general, Ellen, Cavil and the difference between skin jobs and FF; Sam’s just the cylon Ron picked to tell the 3000-year history in 45 minutes. There’s a rift between form and content in this episode imo.

I mean, I like the content; they’ve finally started making sense in the universe's mythology/chronology and giving us some pretty fascinating answers we’ve been waiting for. That's a huge plus in my book.

But the form, the way it’s squeezed into one episode feels rushed and tedious in exposition at the same time… and I get that they don’t have much time left but I have an urge to say… hey guys, what were you thinking writing those multiple Baltar sex scenes in S4 instead of telling the story the way you could’ve and should’ve told so that the viewer didn’t have to finish watching episodes like No Exit feeling as if he has just been seriously mindfrakked?)
m_a_r_i_k_s: kissingm_a_r_i_k_s on February 16th, 2009 11:56 pm (UTC)
I fear that if I watch it will undo what you've said here and I'll be back to thinking 'yeah, the writers think Kara/Sam is the OTP'.

Well, without spoiling you I can say that I had no problem with her being there comforting him. She does love and care about him, I’m at peace with that because it’s a very different kind of affection compared to the one she feels for Lee. I also find that there was nothing shippy about it and she was very guilty and a bit selfish when it came to the info she was personally interested in too. Very typical Kara. Maybe the only difference is that she never tended to speak about her guilt out loud before she died; now she does, but the screen time she shared with Sam in this episode didn't feel like OMG Grand True Love Forever at all.

Also, no matter how hard it is for a Lee fan to realize she never showed such concern when Lee was shot, I must step aside from this bitterness and admit that speaking up her mind with Anders now is way much healthier than bottling up her guilt, acting like she doesn’t give a shit and deciding to keep silence and let the rage and self-loathing kill her from the inside – the way she did with Lee in S2. In that respect, I’m glad she acted on her feeling of guilt this time, took responsibility as a wife and was near Sam.

I'd prefer to believe what you believe: that K/L is still important to them, even if they won't let the two characters be together.

RDM’s comments in the recent podcast about Kara’s protective behavior in No Exit were: “She’s always been in love with Anders to an extent, even when that’s been supplanted by her feelings for Lee Adama”. I’m glad he acknowledges that Kara cares for Sam and loves him, although her feelings for Lee have a much stronger magnitude. And I think his “to an extent” bit is really important and telling as well.

I think there is far too much going on at the moment for Lee and Kara to do any kind of personal relationship moves. But the promo showed that they will be back to sharing the space together in the next episode… one way or the other.

Thank you so much. No-one else has been able to shake my perspective before--their arguments have sounded so hollow and weak and wishful thinking. *hugs*

Oh K, I’m glad I’ve been able to cheer you up a little and make you want to see the story from a different angle. :) It’s really sad when you watch the show enjoying many of its moments and see your friend being in such a deep letdown, because a considerable part of being a fan and a L/K shipper resides in sharing the everlasting hope that comes from a vision of this insane affection love and connection that the actors convey in every sec they are on screen together.

Even if the feeling doesn’t last long as you say, I think your reaction means that my thoughts were worth being spilled. *HUGS*

I’m with you till the bitter end, regardless of whether you hate it or love it.
thrace_adama: Politician Lee sternthrace_adama on February 7th, 2009 10:08 pm (UTC)
Sorry you didn't like the ep, bop! I really did, despite the K/S stuff (my opinions about this are very similar to those of m_a_r_i_k_s and daybreak777). I really hope the show can redeem itself in your eyes by the end--it's holding its own with me at the moment.

I do hear ya, though, on some things. The mutiny was tied up too neatly overall, and ITA that Adama is *not* handling the PR well. Which makes me sad, 'cause I think he's done the best he knows how for the most part and has good reasons for the decisions he's made (Gaeta saying he just left them to rot on NC? Though Gaeta for the most part had very good points in his argument against Adama, I felt that was a bit unfair. Adama came back as soon as he had a chance of getting them off that planet. And he was completely against the fleet settling there in the first place, as well!). And yes, the Roslin/Adama teary reunions in practically every ep are getting old.

Re: Lee condoning the firing squad. The execution of Zarek and Gaeta seemed to be a day or so later, so you never know. Some kind of hearing (though obviously not a real trial or anything) could have happened. But even if it didn't I have to say I really don't hold that against Lee. Zarek and Gaeta were a threat, and as long as they were alive that wouldn't change. They were a case of "clear and present danger" in that their rhetoric could have continued to incite the other mutineers, and there is no question in my mind that their remaining alive would have meant a constant threat to the president and to the admiral and ultimately to everyone who stayed loyal to the government and/or military. Adama might *have* to pardon most of the other mutineers simply because the human race must go on and because they participated in varying degrees and whatnot (Kelly even switched sides!), but not executing Zarek and Gaeta would have allowed for the growth of some of the remaining seeds of mutiny that must exist throughout the fleet. Furthermore, cases in which the leaders are executed and the rest are pardoned are many in history, so BSG's writers may very well have modeled those last minutes after such a case.

Oh, and Romo! I loved his stuff in this ep---waaaaay better than what we got with him in "Sine Qua Non" for sure!

ETA: Ugh. Sorry for all the editing!

Edited at 2009-02-07 10:15 pm (UTC)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on February 7th, 2009 10:31 pm (UTC)
Though Gaeta for the most part had very good points in his argument against Adama, I felt that was a bit unfair. Adama came back as soon as he had a chance of getting them off that planet. And he was completely against the fleet settling there in the first place, as well!
Yes, one thing which I have found very well written is the way that Gaeta's arguments are largely extremely sound and fair but they veer into hyperbole around some particularly emotional issues. And that highlights how Adama's actions can appear in a different light to someone who isn't unquestioningly on his side. I find that very believable and interesting, while agreeing that it's not the whole truth. That was why, for me, I was desperate for a dialogue to be opened between the mutineers and Adama/Roslin. For there to be some explanation from A/R of how things had come about, some compassion... and for the mutineers to get a chance to voice their fears and anger and then come to a place where they needed to move forward together. HA! Instead we got this OTT clampdown and refusal to discuss any of the valid issues.

I hope they do pardon the rest of them. I assume they will. And I see where BSG is coming from, but the result is that in having NO dialogue at all between the authorities and those concerned about a Cylon Alliance, by simply saying 'you're wrong', they have lost my sympathy forever. Just a personal thing, I guess.
thrace_adama: StarbuckandApollo thoughtfulthrace_adama on February 8th, 2009 04:06 am (UTC)
in having NO dialogue at all between the authorities and those concerned about a Cylon Alliance, by simply saying 'you're wrong', they have lost my sympathy forever. Just a personal thing, I guess.

No, I do see what you are saying. I was thinking this evening as I was driving home just about how much actually *talking* to the people would have helped. But Laura and Bill are still stuck in the way things used to be, much as they would deny this. Before the Colonies were destroyed, there was an immense distance between the president and the admiral of the fleet from the people (as there is here in our modern world)...and this was okay; anything less wouldn't have made sense then, really. But now, as Lee has said, they are a gang. The rules have changed, but these two haven't. I guess I both admire them for sticking to their guns and doing what they feel is right even when it's unpopular and even when others don't approve of how they're getting it done (leadership is hard, and BSG has done a great job of demonstrating just how hard, I think) but I also see where there is anger that Roslin and Adama seem so superior and unwilling to really *listen* to the civilians... Idk. They are certainly not perfect leaders, but isn't that the whole point? They've broken down here, and maybe justice has broken down a bit too on their watch, but as Roslin has said, as long as there are people around to judge them in the future, they will have succeeded in what they set out to do. Maybe Adama and Roslin don't deserve our sympathy...but I have to say that I do sympathize with them and respect what they've had to do over the course of the series. Nothing they've done was with malicious intent and they've always wanted what's best for the people, whether they always did a stellar job of articulating this to the people or not.

(Sorry, I'm rambling! Will stop now. I so enjoy discussing our different POVs--BSG does provide some great topics of conversation, I must say. :) )
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee concentratingbop_radar on February 8th, 2009 08:14 am (UTC)
how much actually *talking* to the people would have helped.
I honestly do believe it would have made an immense difference. And maybe I'm naive, but I expected the mutiny to result in some dialogue. I expected there to be some horrible consequences, and probably for Gaeta to lose his life, but also for it to be a wake-up call for Adama or Roslin. Or if not for them, then for Lee to step in and realise that if he didn't take over, then things would really get out of control. I guess I'm just really disappointed that there was no sign of it causing any kind of change in approach for any of the authorities.

I guess I both admire them for sticking to their guns and doing what they feel is right even when it's unpopular and even when others don't approve of how they're getting it done
I felt like that for a long time, but now there are two things which have caused me to lose faith in them. The first is that I don't really believe that the Cylon alliance IS in the humans' best interests--it still hasn't been clearly explained to me, let alone the rest of the Fleet. And secondly, maybe even more importantly, both Adama and Roslin have expressed an unwillingness to keep leading, an exhaustion and lack of emotional connection with the people they're leading--they freely admit it. They're all WILL now, and no heart. For me, that's the point at which a leader should know to step down. But they won't relinquish the reins.

I find the discussion very interesting too--thank you! I've been thinking further about it and I realise that even since 4.5 started I have shifted in my opinion and in terms of what I want to see happen.

Adama and Roslin were good people once--for me this is a story about how good people get corrupted by power, how acting like a dictator, even with good intentions, turns you into one. Gaeta's story was like that in miniature--in being driven to extremity, even doing it all for the 'best' intentions, it resulted in horrible actions and in turning into a bit of a 'monster' (Zarek is more of one, but in dealing with him Gaeta has to take some responsibility). Both stories are moving to me--but unfortunately the show frames A and R as 'right' and Gaeta as 'wrong'. I believe that's reductive. If the show were allowing both parties to appear more ambiguously I would still be emotionally engaged and I'd feel freer to feel compassionately for A and R. But being forced to view them as 'heroes' makes me choke and feel resentful. Does that make any sense?
thrace_adama: Lee grins at Kara in Homethrace_adama on February 8th, 2009 05:23 pm (UTC)
Sure it makes sense, yeah. I think I'm just not to that point yet... I want to see where they go from here--I have to hope that A and R *will* make changes and/or that Lee *will* step up. It's the optimistic part of me! :)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara destinybop_radar on February 9th, 2009 09:21 am (UTC)
I admire your optimism. It's a lovely trait!
m_a_r_i_k_s: black&whitem_a_r_i_k_s on February 8th, 2009 06:13 pm (UTC)
I expected there to be some horrible consequences, and probably for Gaeta to lose his life, but also for it to be a wake-up call for Adama or Roslin. Or if not for them, then for Lee to step in and realise that if he didn't take over, then things would really get out of control.

Whether it will be a wake up call for Adama and Roslin we'll see right in the next episode, they didn't have time to show it in this one. And while I don't harbor much hope for Adama, I can't quite give up on Laura yet, I think she'll definitely draw some conclusions and learn from mistakes. They can't continue to ignore that so many people in the fleet (basically 25 ships out of 35) resent trusting cylons. And it's time for Lee to defend his position on this issue, not just put it in Tigh's face in the heat of a battle.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee!facebop_radar on February 9th, 2009 09:24 am (UTC)
I hope you are right, I really do.

For me, it's long past the time when Lee needed to make his position clear: I couldn't believe how silent and acquiescent he was in that meeting with Helo, Tyrol, Tigh et al. To me he feels totally out of character, except for that one call to Tigh. I guess I'm scared I'll find out next week that Lee is not the Lee I love any more.
smact46smact46 on February 9th, 2009 02:31 am (UTC)
Sorry you hated it Boppy. I too, hate the thought of executions of any kind.

I have chosen to focus on the good bits (Lee and Kara - I am nothing but predictable - Lee was just frakking awesome this week), and I hope that the powers that be will put us out of our misery re Kara/Sam soon, one way or another. I don't think that Sam will die, somehow...I have no basis for this, just my gut feelings. I would also like to see Kara *choose* to be with Lee, and not just because Sam is dead.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee separationbop_radar on February 9th, 2009 09:23 am (UTC)
Last week I feel i did really well at focussing on the good bits, this week not so much. It's a good idea though.

I hope you're right about Sam--and glad I'm not the only one that wants Kara to choose Lee, clearly, while Sam is alive.
fruitsome: l_caingrapefruitzzz on February 13th, 2009 08:02 pm (UTC)
I'm of mixed opinion. For something that was insanely annoying, it was well-done (unlike Clark grovelling at Lana's feet :D ). It was a bit much for them to execute Gaeta so quickly, without a trial and after his horrible recent disability and probably mental instability. Zarek I don't mind so much, because he's always been a dangerous stirrer and nearly pulled the same crap on Kobol. If not poor Gaeta, it could have been any one of them who went that way.

And yes indeed, AdamaandRoslin are a scary two-headed tyrant, no better than the people they're executing. It's so goddam annoying that they think their way is self-evidently right and all other opionions are treasonous. I understand it as a military viewpoint, but Roslin's smugness has always grated - and now they're welded together in weepy love.

Sam really is the little maiden tied to the railway tracks, isn't he? I don't mind Kara being all over him, because she's always been emotionally all over the shop and he was bleeding from the neck while Lee was bellowing healthily next to her. (Btw, loved seeing little Lee fling Kelly across the room and scream at him. Shame it was in support of his crummy papa). I loved the scene of Baltar sharing a last fag with Gaeta and being there for him.

BTW, saw the trailer for "Law & Order UK" yesterday. Lee had his puffy politician hair, the same suit and a hilarious mockney accent. Heh.

Oh - just realised something. I don't mind them being all clingy and yet slutty because I still think of everyone as being In Wartime and grabbing whatever happiness they can get. It started with Dee randomly kissing Billy and I've sort of put everyone in the same category.

Also, when Kara shot Lee and he was lying on the floor bleeding to death, she didn't go to him and help him - Dee did that. She was outside the room in complete whispery hysterics....well, I thought it was shippy ;) The writers are totally messing with the romantic stuff, though. Mind you, they think A/R are the perfect couple.

Edited at 2009-02-13 08:20 pm (UTC)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee dreamybop_radar on February 13th, 2009 09:49 pm (UTC)
For something that was insanely annoying, it was well-done
True. Like you I don't really mind Zarek being executed (except in so far as I oppose execution in general) but found Gaeta's death tragic. The last scene of Gaeta and Baltar was great though.

Shame it was in support of his crummy papa
Yes. That's how I feel all season. Sigh.

Lee had his puffy politician hair, the same suit and a hilarious mockney accent. Heh.
HA! I have this terrible feeling I'm going to wind up watching it. But I do not like the puffy hair and imagine the mockney will grate. :/
fruitsome: l_dollygrapefruitzzz on February 14th, 2009 02:05 am (UTC)
Gaeta's death was a tragedy, stretching back to his awful dual role on New Caprica. He's also really acted well with all the extra work this year. I'll miss him a lot more than Dualla.

The ITV series will be terrible, as they all are. The channel has a diabolical habit of hiring all the best actors and hot current names and running them through 50p scripts. I have to see that trailer again because watching Lee LEE trying to be fast-talking and flashy is too much to take in.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee is emo!bop_radar on February 15th, 2009 12:47 am (UTC)
Yes, Alessandro really shone in his acting this season--I'm glad he got that opportunity.

hahaha, yes, it sounds like I will have to check out the trailer and boggle in person. he looked so brooding in the promo shots, I just assumed he would be an introspective emo character. HA!
fruitsome: l_archiecandlegrapefruitzzz on February 15th, 2009 04:26 am (UTC)
I don't know if it'll work for you (I need to fiddle with the computer tomorrow) but the official site is here .

...the charming DS Matt Devlin (Jamie Bamber) whose approach to policing is part seduction part force.

Well, it'll be a change :D

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on February 15th, 2009 10:10 am (UTC)
Hmm. No lucks for me--guess I'll just have to wait for the first ep. *giggles*
fruitsome: l_pilots obliquegrapefruitzzz on February 19th, 2009 11:50 am (UTC)
I found a trailer here, but it only has Lee being dour and Leelike, so maybe I hallucinated the flash mockneyness :D