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10 March 2009 @ 07:27 pm
BSG 4.18 Islanded in a whatever ever  
Just getting it out of my system. Move on by. Nothing to see here.

I wasn't going to post about Battlestar this week because it was blah as usual, but I think I need to get a few things out of my system and I'm personally curious to see whether the finale changes my feelings at all.

I pretty much only enjoy BSG now by reading it as meta on itself. The lines/moments I liked best from this week's episode were:
- Bill saying he was fed up with destiny crap (except that it was hypocritical given that he could have put a stop to it earlier)
- Tigh saying 'that was a bust' in response to Ellen claiming the FF tried to stop the cycle of violence (understatement of the millennium?
- Lee Adama's 'don't care' speech (but not in the way it was intended).

Because here's the thing: I don't care either. I just DON'T CARE any more. I didn't feel anything in the pilots scene. I didn't feel anything when Lee was on screen anywhere else either. I just... feel empty. I actually started laughing when he said 'I don't care'. ME NEITHER, LEE. ME NEITHER. It read to me like the words of someone who's had so much shit thrown at them they have just ceased to care about everything as a coping mechanism... which, let's face it, is pretty much how I and (some) other BSG fans feel right about now. So yeah, loved it at a meta level. Didn't get anything shippy out of it at all.

Because it's not exactly a surprise that Lee accepts Kara no matter who/what she is. We KNOW THAT already. We did watch 4.03, writers! To me the scene felt completely 'pasted on, yay!', a gratuitous attempt to keep Kara/Lee fans in some kind of suspense so they watch the finale. It came out of nowhere. There has been absolutely no discussion of a relationship between Lee and Kara and Kara is not in the slightest bit interested in one. She still refers to Sam as her husband and I bet you anything her 'destiny' is to wind up as his translator while he babbles on in hybrid state.

This isn't even close to what I wanted/needed to see from a Kara/Lee scene in order for me to feel some kind of closure about the relationship.

But then neither of these characters feel like the characters I love any more. Kara putting her own photo on the memorial wall was perhaps the most 'meta' action of all. Yes, Kara, you are dead. You are no longer the character I know/love and you never will be again. (Psst, you're also way more boring now!) And Lee, well, Lee, who KNOWS what the hell is going through your head these days. You seem to speak up or shut up only when TPTB/Adama needs or wants you to. Was it your destiny to be a puppet? What a frakking shame.

Other things:
- The reduction of Roslin to one of Adama's 'women' sickens me. It gets worse every week. Like Lee, I wish they'd killed her earlier so I wouldn't have to watch her reduced like this.
- Why does fandom hate Boomer?! I used to dislike her but I actually find her way MORE interesting now. My only complaint is a feminist one: her fantasy projection is domestication with the Chief and motherhood?! Bleugh. But I can at least see a coherent character thread with Boomer which is more than I can say with most of the characters on the show at this stage.
- I do feel for Hera being handed over to Cavill though. *shudders*
- Kara's actions continue to make NO SENSE to me. Katee acted her heart out in this episode but if you didn't know you would never guess that her scenes all came from the one episode. Why the hell would she trust Gaius with her secret?!
- How much did I not care about Adama's paintscene?!

My main emotion about them abandoning Galactica is fear that it will mean more scenes in the boring Cylon set design. They could have surely spared us that in the final hours, no?

ETA: Comments include some spoilers about what we (might?) see in the finale. Probably most people know them but if you're totally spoiler free, be careful.
 
 
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
Current Mood: blahblah
 
 
 
brokenmnemonic: Pilotsbrokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:07 am (UTC)
I was looking at the Kara/Lee scene, and my chain of thought ran like this:

- Why haven't we seen any scenes between Kara and Lee in so many episodes? Surely if they care for each other, they'd be talking
- Instead, we've had three episodes of Kara emoing over Anders
- Why isn't she talking to Lee about Anders? Why isn't Lee dropping in
- But if it's not Kara, which other characters give a flying handful of monkey faeces for Anders? Nobody
- So it's got to be Kara emoing over Anders
- But it's unrealistic of Kara to spend all her time emoing over Anders and ignoring Lee if she and Lee are actually meant to be close/a ship
- So, either the writing sucks and this is an artificial construct to try and make the audience care about Anders, or the writers don't actually consider Kara and Lee to be close/a ship
- Well, this sucks whichever way you look at it.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Jamie whateverbop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:27 am (UTC)
There's no way the writers consider them a ship. But they do know that the fans are expecting some kind of Kara/Lee 'ending' so they threw this out as a teaser. It's a total aside to the main plot which is all about Anders and Cylons and destiny and boring shit involving goo. WhatEVER.

But if it's not Kara, which other characters give a flying handful of monkey faeces for Anders? Nobody- So it's got to be Kara emoing over Anders
I guess... except the final five seemed to care about him... I don't think it's just that reason that Kara is staying with him. I think its quite clear that her destiny is wrapped up with him.

I know a lot of shippers need to cling to whatever hope they can muster at this point in time, but I can't really see any convincing sign that the writers consider Kara/Lee the OTP.
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 11:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 09:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 10th, 2009 11:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - smact46 on March 10th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kate: Veronica Mars: Veronica lostmskatej on March 10th, 2009 10:12 am (UTC)
Ugh, it just sounds so BAD. I can't believe it turned into such horrible mess.
brokenmnemonic: Kara - Betweenbrokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:16 am (UTC)
By horrible mess, you mean "awesomely dark, edgy and clever", right? ;)
(no subject) - mskatej on March 10th, 2009 10:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - smact46 on March 10th, 2009 10:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mskatej on March 10th, 2009 10:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mskatej on March 10th, 2009 10:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 10:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mskatej on March 10th, 2009 10:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brokenmnemonic on March 10th, 2009 11:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 11:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
chani86 on March 10th, 2009 10:55 am (UTC)
Again fastforwarded through most of it... mainly just to see how bad it gets!
Why make Lee a political figure if they again don't have anything to do for him other than being a puppet for adama? Is anyone thinking storylines through at all? I'd like zarek back please.

How often have we seen adama break down now, are we still supposed to care? and seriously the faces, tune it down EJO!

her fantasy projection is domestication with the Chief and motherhood?!
oh didn't you know that is every woman's only aim in life, even someone like roslin has only ever felt at peace with a man by her side (even though the man is a total douche).

My main emotion about them abandoning Galactica is fear that it will mean more scenes in the boring Cylon set design

I don't think that's gonna happen so soon, the galactica has to have a major role in the finale, after all she's the life and soul of the show (at least since they suddenly came up with this in S4.5, I couldn't care less about the ship).

The K/L scene I read differently than most I guess. I saw it as a confirmation that Kara has no romantic feelings for Lee, she obviously values his opinion and his friendship highly, but romantically she's still all about sammy. And I was kinda glad they're sticking with this for once, but they'll no doubt ruin it in the finale (and I wish they hadn't given us the makeout scenes between K/L this season, they just seem inapropriate).

Kara's resurrection won't be fully explained then? What a surprise that they didn't think it through before they killed her for shock value.

I should stop trying to take the show seriously...
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara destinybop_radar on March 10th, 2009 11:05 am (UTC)
I should have fastforwarded more of it. Not fastforwarding was a mistake. ;)

Why make Lee a political figure if they again don't have anything to do for him other than being a puppet for adama?
No clue. But it's the only thing I feel really angry about any more at all, apart from the sickening gender issues. Lee's always been 'my' character and so I guess it makes sense that the last iota of emotion I have about the show is on his behalf.

oh didn't you know that is every woman's only aim in life
Oh, riiiiiiiiight. Sorry, I MISSED that message. Because it was only, you know, shouted at me through a megaphone 10 million times... /sarcasm ;)

at least since they suddenly came up with this in S4.5, I couldn't care less about the ship
Haha, me neither! I guess in an abstract sense but lots of goop-painting scenes and Bill emoing with a toothbrush didn't help me to feel invested in it...

I saw it as a confirmation that Kara has no romantic feelings for Lee,
Oh I didn't really get that from the scene itself, but that's what I feel in general. I mean, I got that from her hanging out with Sammy so much and so on. And I guess in the memorial hall scene I felt like she was pretty glad that Lee was accepting of her but, you know, was Kara-like and didn't really take it any further than that because she's never really wanted him. Not really. I actually felt Katee did her best to show Kara feeling something for Lee in that scene--just, not, you know, ENOUGH. But I also felt it was a completely unnecessary scene and I would have rather they hadn't had it at all. Like the makeout scenes, I just see it as unnecessary jerking around and harping back to the Quadrangle... when it's quite clear that Kara is all about Sammy and they should just get on with it already.

Kara's resurrection won't be fully explained then?
Oh dear. Did you really think it would be? *hands you comfort cookies*
(no subject) - chani86 on March 10th, 2009 11:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 09:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chani86 on March 10th, 2009 10:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 11:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chani86 on March 11th, 2009 01:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 11th, 2009 09:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
m_a_r_i_k_s: kissingm_a_r_i_k_s on March 10th, 2009 11:37 am (UTC)
Hmmm. I agree about Bill and Laura, I'm so tired of their obnoxious behavior actually...

As for the rest of this episode, you know my opinion, Bop. I can't agree on pilots with you at all, I loved both of them in this one by themselves and especially together.

She still refers to Sam as her husband and

Well, she does refer to him as her husband (and he still technically is) before attempting to kill him and spare him the suffering as he promised he'd do for her in LDYB. I have no problems with her being near him whatsoever, because it doesn't have any romantic implications, only guilt and care and a genuine desire to prevent him from becoming something he was never meant to be. And in the end she goes to him as a new person after her moment with Lee in in the hallway - she doesn't run off as she did in UB but goes to finish things with him through accepting who she is (even though she doesn't know who - and that's the strength that Lee gave her) and wanting to figure everything out once and and for all. "...which brigs us to a bigger question - why am I here?.. ... So we're gonna sit here until we figure it out" She's not there to further cry about him, drawn in her guilt, comfort him and love him till the end, she's there to get her answers, do business and come back to Lee's side.

I bet you anything her 'destiny' is to wind up as his translator while he babbles on in hybrid state.

I bet you're very wrong :) This episode was the first step in L/K closure even though the writers sucked with the lack of them together in a few previous episodes. And as JB mentioned we'll get to see the beginning of Apollo and Starbuck in the final. It's all about them in the end whether you accept and like it or not.

I also care too much about such characters as Lee, Kara and Tigh to wish they were all airlocked or long dead even if in a form of a coping mechanism.

I'm really sad that you're so upset about the episode. I was spitting bile after Deadlock too, because that epi was the worse piece of writing BSG has ever known imo. But other than that, S4.5 is very likely to be better than 4.0 And if it gives me a good pilots closue and some great space battles, at least I'll be grateful to that and won't buy the DVDs just to use them as footage material for vidding and burn them))).

Why the hell would she trust Gaius with her secret?!

Hee. She didn't TRUST him with her secret... she just got to the point when the pressure of it all was so unbearable that she didn't care whom to tell anymore... So his question "who are you?" was like a trigger for her to spit it all out, she did the same with her head!stranger and she'd do the same with a 5 year old kid who would ask her in the corridor passing by. She just had to tell anyone.

Why does fandom hate Boomer?!

I have no idea, I've always liked her storyline better than Athena's and now her actions and interactions with Hera are really interesting. I wonder what her personal ending and resolution with Chief will be like.

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara Lee no usbop_radar on March 10th, 2009 09:33 pm (UTC)
attempting to kill him and spare him the suffering as he promised he'd do for her in LDYB
Which is an act of love, right? She had a whole speech about how she wanted him back more than anything else in the whole wide world but she was overcoming her selfish love for him and doing what was best for him... except then she didn't have to because he started babbling. I read what the K/L shippers write nowadays and it just sounds like madness--because all I see on the show is Kara loving Sam in a my-love-overcomes-all-obstacles-even-braindeath-and-goop kind of way.

she's there to get her answers, do business and come back to Lee's side.
Well, I disagree that it's been played as 'do business'. I think it's emotionally painful for her to be around Sam and see him in this state, and so I think she phrased it rather abruptly, but I don't think that means she won't stay with him. I don't really see how she could ever leave him... and I certainly don't see ANY sign that she wants to 'go back to Lee's side'. She never went to Lee's side in the first place! Lee came up to her, said a whole lot of stuff that she's kind of grateful for but which makes her hugely awkward because she doesn't return his feelings, and then he went away and left her alone, because even HE knows that she doesn't return his feelings. He just doesn't care any more whether or not she does. And fair enough. I'm glad he's reached zen about that because she sure as hell is never going to choose to be with him.

This sounds very argumentative and mean from me, I'm sorry. I don't mean it to be because I honestly think it's WONDERFUL that you have still got faith. I just feel locked out from that. I read all the shipper posts and feel like I'm on the other side of a pane of glass from them. And you're the only person that even bothers to try and put a different point of view to me any more. You did give me a little bit of hope a few episodes ago and then it got worn down again.

I wanted to feel something in the pilots scene, but I didn't feel anything. It just felt so insincere. It was their most empty scene ever for me.

JB mentioned we'll get to see the beginning of Apollo and Starbuck in the final
I took that to mean we'd see them flying again. Which would be yay. I hope we do. But in a ship sense... where we started was Lee with a massive crush and Kara rejecting that. I don't know if I need to relive that for the hundredth time...

I also care too much about such characters as Lee, Kara and Tigh to wish they were all airlocked or long dead even if in a form of a coping mechanism.
I cared about them when they made coherent sense to me as characters but that stopped early this season.

if it gives me a good pilots closue and some great space battles, at least I'll be grateful to that and won't buy the DVDs just to use them as footage material for vidding and burn them
Hee. Well. I think I'll do that for you instead, ok? :) I don't see how it can give good pilots closure. The last minute is not good enough, and I don't even believe we'll get that. I'd go a space battle or two though... I guess there's a small chance that might happen, what with Cavill out there still to be nuked...

she just got to the point when the pressure of it all was so unbearable that she didn't care whom to tell anymore...
And yet she still didn't tell Lee. Pretty damning. Damning in a 'they clearly have had zero conversation since Earth' kind of way.

I've always liked her storyline better than Athena's and now her actions and interactions with Hera are really interesting. I wonder what her personal ending and resolution with Chief will be like.
Not sure. She's one of the few characters that possibly, just possibly I can see the show writing a coherent ending for. I liked Athena but I like her most in contrast to Boomer, if that makes sense? I like the pair of them a lot and I found them revisiting Boomer to be one of the stronger aspects of 4.5.
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 10th, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 11th, 2009 09:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 11th, 2009 11:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 11th, 2009 11:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 11th, 2009 11:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 12th, 2009 10:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - smact46 on March 10th, 2009 10:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - smact46 on March 17th, 2009 09:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 18th, 2009 10:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - smact46 on March 19th, 2009 06:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 10th, 2009 11:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 11:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 11th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 11th, 2009 09:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - m_a_r_i_k_s on March 11th, 2009 10:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 11th, 2009 11:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
Raprap541 on March 10th, 2009 02:41 pm (UTC)
I actually took the whole lee/kara thing as part of the constant cocktease of their relationship.

Here is where it fails for me. There's no plan for after, and thats obvious. Its like the whole show is marking time until the grand finale that destroys both sides... and everyone knows both sides are going down so there's not even hints about survival. What exactly is Cavil's motivation? Why is Bill willing to kill what's left of his loyal crew? Why is NO ONE asking what they are gonna do for the next year or so it takes to find a habitable planet? They know... and we know... and there's no suspense.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee in darknessbop_radar on March 10th, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC)
actually took the whole lee/kara thing as part of the constant cocktease of their relationship
You mean the one where Lee is madly in love and Kara's always in love with a dead (or gooey) guy? Yuh. Whatevs, show. I don't care anymore.

They know... and we know... and there's no suspense.
Hahahaha, yeah. That's why I could only read Lee's 'I don't care' as 'everything's so frakking pointless, wtfever, Kara!' They've got about 5 seconds left. But the writers shouldn't be writing the CHARACTERS as if they know that! That's just BAD WRITING. AGAIN.
pixiestks: Smoking Schoolgirlpixiestks on March 10th, 2009 07:09 pm (UTC)
After skipping last week's episode and mostly fast forwarding through this one, I'm finding it a matter of endurance to make it to the end just to know how bad it's going to be and to know that I stuck it out, just in case there is a payoff at the end. Otherwise, I'm not looking forward to anything but the relief that it'll be over with and I can repress all knowledge of anything that happened after the first couple of seasons.

Having suffered through several shows that that faltered toward the end, Queer as Folk comes to mind when thinking of a Kara/Lee comparison. The writers dangled Brian and Michael's deep friendship and underlying attraction in the first season then pretty much forgot about it except for a mention here and there. In the end there was an attempt to bring it up again but there had been so much put between them that no one could feel happy with them getting together, even though it would've had to happen off screen after the series finale. Kara and Lee seem to be in the same boat and I can't imagine them being more than what they are now, especially if it was some weak attempt to have them realize their true love at zero hour.

On the bright side of things, nothing could be worse than the series finale of The L Word where they leave everything hanging in the hopes that they'll get to wrap things up in a movie or a spin off. Oh wait, it could be that bad, given the potential Caprica series...
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Sixbop_radar on March 10th, 2009 09:38 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it's an endurance test alright.

. Otherwise, I'm not looking forward to anything but the relief that it'll be over with and I can repress all knowledge of anything that happened after the first couple of seasons.
Hee hee. ME TOO. :) I'm glad there's others like me.

I can't imagine them being more than what they are now, especially if it was some weak attempt to have them realize their true love at zero hour
That will actually piss me off MORE. It will be cheap and insincere given that Kara has chosen Anders for the rest of her life/time on screen.

Oh wait, it could be that bad, given the potential Caprica series...
It totally could be that bad!!! Brace yourself. I have full faith BSG could fulfil your worst expectations. I have found so far that everytime I prepare for the worst with it, it still manages to disappoint me further...
(no subject) - rap541 on March 10th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rap541 on March 10th, 2009 10:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
smact46smact46 on March 10th, 2009 10:07 pm (UTC)
"Because it's not exactly a surprise that Lee accepts Kara no matter who/what she is. We KNOW THAT already. We did watch 4.03, writers!"

I did like this scene, but mostly because of the way that Katee and Jamie played it. I agree with you totally...we *do* already know that Lee doesn't care. I guess Maybe they were playing it from the angle (dropping the anvil)that Lee is *saying that* to Kara. They are really just tying up loose threads now....sigh
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara destinybop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:12 pm (UTC)
Yeah, Katee and Jamie both acted brilliantly. I just felt it didn't really add anything. I don't know if the writers 'see' the same threads as I do... but at this point in time I think it's too late for meaningful Kara/Lee so they should just get on with the Kara/Sam story they want to be telling and be done with it. I don't enjoy being toyed with.
(no subject) - rap541 on March 10th, 2009 11:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 11th, 2009 11:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
smact46smact46 on March 10th, 2009 10:16 pm (UTC)
Sorry you are so disappointed Boppy *hugs*

I am still enjoying it for what it is and looking forward to the finale. I still have high hopes for L/K in the finish.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on March 10th, 2009 10:34 pm (UTC)
Sorry I'm such a downer at the moment. :( i just want it to be over so I can remember the show I used to love without worrying about how they are destroying it.

I hope the finale doesn't disappoint you. *hugs*