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23 March 2009 @ 09:26 pm
What I wish I had time to write  
So it turns out I *do* still want/need to talk about Battlestar Galactica. I'm actually desperately itching to write a serious meta post on the big-picture problems with the finale. I'm reading a lot of response posts and seeing so many good points being made and I'd really like to collate them together. I've also read a few responses from people that liked it and they are fascinating in a headtilt-y, huh! kind of way. I know my response was very personal: it could be summarised as disgust at the way RDM's Catholicism (lapsed or no, it clearly invades his subconscious) bled all over the series and brought everything back to the most simplistic literalism. That came on top of my already queasy feelings about the gender politics and racism (which the finale did nothing to appease). Then they ADDED colonialism to the list of objectionable politics! Was that necessary?! Really?! What happened to good old-fashioned scifi that respected each culture's right to evolve in its own way? Oh I suppose we're meant to handwave that because they became us. *eyeroll* I also found the ending incredibly reductive. OK, I got an answer about Head!Six but it turned out to be the most uninteresting answer of all... I would have been way happier with a clever ambiguous ending that allowed for different interpretations. :( And not just reductive but implausible. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that they will survive? And what was with the sudden universal technology hate? And does RDM know ANYthing about geology/evolution/history? o.O

And now I'm writing the post I don't have time to write... Sigh.

I also want to write a post to my fellow Kara/Lee shippers and Lee fans. I ran guys. I could see the writing on the wall and I fled to protect my heart. I braced myself emotionally for the finale and I watched the Kara/Lee scenes through fingers covering my eyes, and pressed 'play' on Sarah Connor Chronicles as fast as I could after it to block it out. But it still haunts me. Lee's face! *thud*

And yeah, WHY did they have that horrible cheating on Zak retcon and the WORST most heavy-handed metaphor of all time?

I am reading reaction posts that express so much of what I've felt re. the ship over this whole season. I feel so bad for all of you that walked into the pain of the finale because you kept hope alive for so long.

I've seen several people mentioning it feeling like a break-up. Well I agree. It does feel like that and I think it feels like that for good reason: we gave our hearts to this ship and that's a form of love. It creates the same euphoric feelings and it hurts bad when it all falls apart in our hands. I've always found romantic love a very destructive emotion and I guess I fooled myself into thinking fictional love was less so. Well... maybe it is a bit, but not enough to stop the pain from being real and horrible and enough to make you want to eat icecream, stay in your pjs, drink your pain away... whatever you do after break ups. Even the rage we feel at RDM and the shared anger is part of a similar sort of processing people do after break ups: what went wrong? how could this happen to us? what did we do to deserve it? etc.

And don't let people tell you you're stupid for feeling this way. It's human. Even if it IS 'just TV'. It is and it isn't... what you saw in these characters and this ship (or ANY ship or character you love this much) is something very personal and for a lot of us it/they had personal resonances within our own internal landscape. So to dismiss that pain is a mistake, I think. Though of course it in no way means we should be mean to those who liked the finale or got what they wanted from the show. :) Lucky sods! :p

I'd also like to write:
- my reaction post to TSCC 2.19 (eeeeee!!! So much to say! So much to process...)
- a post of unpopular vidding fandom opinions (which has been percolating for a long time)
- a squee post about Skins (which I recently mainlined and LOVE)
- a post about the problematic Dollhouse (1.6 didn't really do it for me, kids, though I saw how it was meant to)
- a post on how Kings is not really doing it for me either
and any number of other posts...

And that's not to mention the VIDDING I want to be doing.

You know what all this means? It means I have no time for such activities. I have two days or so in which to respond to comments and then I will be away from the 'net for the next couple of weeks. So all my love in the meantime and I kind of hope you will still be interested in some/any of those proposed posts when I get back. :)

See you on the other side! :p
 
 
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
Current Mood: busybusy
 
 
 
darluludarlulu on March 23rd, 2009 11:53 am (UTC)
I already stopped watching Dollhouse, Kings isn't really doing it for me either, and the BSG finale totally failed on so many, many levels (really, with each passing day, I think of something new that pisses me off about the finale).

Can't wait to read your unpopular vidding fandom opinions. I myself have a staggering amount of never shared rants when it comes to the vidding fandom. :(
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
the BSG finale totally failed on so many, many levels (really, with each passing day, I think of something new that pisses me off about the finale)
TOTALLY! I read your post and just nodded excessively all the way through. I could have added more but part of me thinks if I start listing my issues, I don't think I would ever stop!

It's actually comforting to hear other people have vidding fandom rants (unwritten)! :) I have censored myself a LOT in the past for various reasons, but I think at some point it will come out... I don't know if that's good or bad.
redteekal: T:SCC Icon by meredteekal on March 23rd, 2009 12:36 pm (UTC)
I definitely will be interested! Re the T:SCC that is. Just finished watching 19. This John Connor is so good I'm thinking Bale better keep that torch going when I get to see Salvation! This episode was brilliant - and I heart Derek so much it's not funny. I'm finding the development of John Henry absolutely riveting stuff, if only Ellison spends ten times more time with him than Weaver I might actually trust this one.

I haven't read your previous post comparing BSG to T:SCC because we have BSG lined up to go...I think I'm going to want to mainline that series till it gets done so at least we have all the eps up now.

Re Dollhouse? So far Joss has disappointed me with this one. Mind you we've only watched three or four I think. The only one I liked was the one with the Middleman guy in it. It's not that the stories are necessarily poor it's more the fact that Joss seems to find the need to have Eliza stripping off as much as possible in every episode. Are we watching a TV Series or a thinly veiled Eliza Dushku Worship Hour? I would suppose that if you *liked* Eliza that way then this show would be pretty much your tv version of a very addictive narcotic...but even my other half (who has expressed on occasion that Eliza is definitely on his 'hottie' list) has commented several times on how blatant and obvious Joss's hard on for Eliza is and how he kind of finds that a little disturbing.

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Faithbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:23 am (UTC)
HOORAY! T:SCC FTW! Seriously, I need to surround myself with more SCC fans when I get back... I am craving the fannish squee for that show.

John Connor! *heartthud* He blew me away in 2.19! Wow. I love Derek too and Jesse/Derek is my ship for this show so 2.19 was one of the most amazing hours of TV ever for me. *squees*

Mainlining BSG will be infinitely better than watching it week by week I expect. ;)

As for Dollhouse I can say that I have a MASSIVE girlcrash on Eliza and I STILL don't like it. For me it's the squicky interpersonal/gender politics--which include but are not limited to Eliza stripping off every episode. Yes, I know the politics of abuse and slavery are acknowledged on the show but not nearly enough to overcome my ICK feeling from watching that much rape--emotional, physical, psychological, you name it--on a weekly basis.

It's very sad because I love Tahmoh too.
Raprap541 on March 23rd, 2009 01:02 pm (UTC)
I think - and I am planning a delightfully wanky "why season four was poor" post myself - that the biggest issue I have is that it took us two years to get 20 episodes made....and quite literally, next to nothing of importance took place between Kara returning from the dead and Kara disappearing.

Really. Consider. Kara returns from the dead - and we spent essentially ten episodes in pointless side stories where the only set up is the cylon mutiny.....and they find cinder!earth. Those are the most important events. We already knew who the final four were....

Then? Next most important revolation? Ellen. Then getting Ellen on the ship. Then arranging for Boomer to steal Hera....Then we have the magic song and Kara find Earth. Then everyone decides to become hippies. Kara is never explained. The head people are explained in a facile manner (I was never fond of head!Baltar) and not explained in a way that makes any of Head!Six's earlier actions make sense.

Ron ran out of story and or got bored.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lois likes pantsbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:26 am (UTC)
am planning a delightfully wanky "why season four was poor" post myself
AWESOME! \o/ I look forward to reading that when I get back.

Then we have the magic song and Kara find Earth
And at this point (both in your comment and as I watched the show) I burst into hysterical laughter. OMG SO TRUE.

Kara is never explained. The head people are explained in a facile manner (I was never fond of head!Baltar) and not explained in a way that makes any of Head!Six's earlier actions make sense.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE. And yeah, Head!Baltar? NEVER A GOOD IDEA. Why did Angel!Kara have to find her own corpse and go to light her own funeral pyre? Was that necessary show?

I think Ron did, indeed, get bored. In a 'Bored now, but I'm so great I can do WHATEVERTHEFUCKIWANT' way.
(no subject) - alienfish on April 15th, 2009 06:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Naomi: Skins Jal smiling at Chris by cleopancakfrelling_tralk on March 23rd, 2009 01:41 pm (UTC)
I've just been catching up on Skins lately too (I'm up to season two) and love it so far :D
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Yay!bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:27 am (UTC)
JAL!!!! *hugs icon* OMG, yes! It's so much fun and I love the HEART in all the characters. Who do you like? Who do you like? :)
(no subject) - frelling_tralk on March 24th, 2009 02:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 04:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frelling_tralk on March 24th, 2009 04:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 04:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
chatchien: Chokechatchien on March 23rd, 2009 02:03 pm (UTC)
Dollhouse 1-6 did peak my interest and I explained it in my post on it. But then, I was a Firefly fan, not a Buffy one.

And yes, T:SCC is sooo good.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Faith darkbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:01 am (UTC)
Mmm, interesting post. I was not a Firefly fan. ;) I do find the idea of mind control interesting but my main issue with 1.6, which turned me off, was the way that the guy who's wife died was given a happy ending as if it was an 'acceptable' form of using the dolls. Ewwww! It was not acceptable! NONE of it is acceptable. And basically everyone on the show is unlikeable except the dolls who are persona-less (and now another of the characters is one!) and I don't really want them to get their identities back because then they'll realise they've been raped and go mad and therefore there is no real investment in the story for me. I think maybe it is playing better to FF fans than BTVS fans? That'd be an interesting study...
(no subject) - chatchien on March 24th, 2009 04:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 05:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chatchien on March 24th, 2009 03:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 04:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Talitha: jillicons knittentalitha78 on March 23rd, 2009 02:48 pm (UTC)
Oh, is it trip time already? Have fun, bb!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:01 am (UTC)
Nearly, nearly! :) Byee!
Go Speedster or Go Home: Clex Huglexalicious70 on March 23rd, 2009 03:40 pm (UTC)
Awww, I know how it is when you want to write, but there's no time! *HUGS*

Take care, and we'll see you when you can get back!

(And wow, you're the first person I've seen on LJ who didn't like Dollhouse, either!)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Faithbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:55 am (UTC)
Thank you! *g* And yeah... I should like Dollhouse. I love Eliza and Tahmoh and I have previously liked Joss's shows (though FF not so much) but this one? Not doing it for me, and I'm troubled about the messages in it.
dianora: bsg bill angrydianora2 on March 23rd, 2009 05:37 pm (UTC)
Thank you for this, Boppy. *hugs* And I will most definitely still be interested in reading most of those posts when you get back.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee boxing hugbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:02 am (UTC)
Thank you! :)
Ms Cranky Pants of the Depresso Blog: bofoddity on March 23rd, 2009 06:26 pm (UTC)
I'll be watching Dollhouse for now, but I still have trouble telling the difference between what's intended to be uncomfortable and what's Joss's own kinkiness, and I would really love to be able to tell. I'm also curious about whether I should try Kings out, but meanwhile I have the second season of SCC to catch up with. (Up to episode 5 now!)

Vidding opinions always interest me, so I really look forward to seeing your unpopular opinions. Meanwhile, take care!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: TSCC Cameronbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:54 am (UTC)
I still have trouble telling the difference between what's intended to be uncomfortable and what's Joss's own kinkiness, and I would really love to be able to tell
*nods* Same, same! Basically I hold a very strong personal view on the concept of the Dollhouse itself (I think it's slavery and rape and a crime against humanity) so I'm personally uncomfortable with it being even slightly condoned within the show... which probably means this show is going to be a no-go for me. If the dolls weren't 'people', if they were clones or robots for instance, I'd probably LOVE it because the question could be over whether they had access to regular human rights. But alas... ICK.

Enjoy SCC! It gets better and better... :)
Nickyobsessive24 on March 23rd, 2009 06:37 pm (UTC)
Skins!!!! \0/
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:30 am (UTC)
YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!! And all because of your Tony/Maxxie vid. :D Though funnily enough? Totally didn't ship them on the show! Though that arc was enjoyable. *G*

You and starreyedmagic are the only two Skins fans I can think of on my f'list and I'd love to come squee in your journals when I get back... I saw you have a Naomi/Emily vid up?! I'm sooooo far behind on people's recent vids (resigning is a timesuck!) but will definitely check that out. I suspect you and I may have different favourite characters on the show but I kind of love everyone on Skins in all their fucked up glory, and am kicking myself for not getting into the show as it aired so I missed out on shared squee. :(

Season 3 ends soon, yes? I may have to catch the finale when I get back.

I don't even have any Skins icons yet. This must be remedied!
(no subject) - obsessive24 on April 2nd, 2009 07:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
brokenmnemonic: Bones - Reflectionbrokenmnemonic on March 23rd, 2009 07:07 pm (UTC)
I agree completely with all of your points on BSG - I'm tempted to write a post on what a narrative failure the series was, laced through with terrible gender politics, twisted Catholicism, domination fantasies and so many plot holes, blind plot twists and stupid things dropped in just for cheap shocks that it ended up being the visual equivalent of very bad fanfic... but I don't think I can be arsed. The fans and the actors deserved better.

Unpopular vidding fandom opinions? I'm curious...
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Clois Crimsonbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 01:50 am (UTC)
but I don't think I can be arsed
I agree with the badfic (with bonus Angels ex Machina! got a plot hole? Stick an angel in it!) but yeah, I am totally conflicted on whether to bother outlining why it sucks or not. Part of my REALLY wants to to get closure on the whole thing, the other part thinks I've already spent too much time on this show.

Unpopular vidding fandom opinions? I'm curious...
You know some of them already but my capacity for unpopular opinions is boundless. :D
chani86 on March 23rd, 2009 07:15 pm (UTC)
Thanks for posting this, I’d quote but there is just too much I want to express my agreement too, especially the first paragraph. I’m slowly trying to push the horrible K/L non- ending to the back of my mind and mostly succeeding, although I am quite shocked that RDM apparantly saw the whole relationship as them inappropriately having the hots for each other and otherwise mostly one-sided affection on Lee’s side, not to mention all this `they just weren’t meant for each other´ business, which is so cheap and simplistic storytelling and robs them of all complexity. But since Lee seemed strangely okay, I have this image of him finally being free of all this pressure to be something he’s not and his constant pull and push treatment from Kara (and Adama’s ego). As a Lee fan it’s still hard to get over the fact that his love was never fully reciprocated, but since it would never have worked out according to RDM, at least he can move on now (well until he starves or freezes to death). It also helped that I fastforwarded through the K/S scene. I just wish they had left the flashback scenes of K/L out, they didn't make any valid point about the ship, they should have stayed consistent with the muted way they treated K/L in the finale.

However, the preachy nature of the episode was insulting to the audience’s intelligence, and I’m finding it hard to accept this whole back to the roots, technology, science and cities are evil thing from people who live in L.A. and constantly fly across the country, thereby polluting the planet. I want to know, if RDM takes the bike to get to work… And those seminars that he assumes will be held about BSG, I wonder what will be said about this implication that the fleet (with their decidedly American, Western European superiority) brought culture(and religion) to the primitive world. Not to mention not one female human name character survived and Kara’ending was a complete cop-out (why did she die in the first place?).

I understand what you’re saying about it being like the painful, disappointing end of a relationship, where nothing became of the promise of the beginning. Although for me it’s also a bit like I’m slowly overcoming an addiction, that wasn’t doing anything good for me for a long time, so I guess it’s good to leave that behind (but I will never fully recover from my Lee obsession!)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee in darknessbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:15 am (UTC)
am quite shocked that RDM apparantly saw the whole relationship as them inappropriately having the hots for each other and otherwise mostly one-sided affection on Lee’s side, not to mention all this `they just weren’t meant for each other´ business, which is so cheap and simplistic storytelling and robs them of all complexity
I'm shocked too. But evidently he DOES think that. I'm shocked because I feel like that was the most reductive reading of the relationship possible. And I don't think it was that to begin with (or didn't need to be) and he actually had to retcon it to make it even more like that. And yet for 3 seasons it was a central narrative thread, ok sometimes hideously handled, but it definitely seemed like the writers were going somewhere with it... somewhere other than 'all this was not meant to be'. Did he just get fed up of them? It feels a bit like he did. Katee and Jamie had such chemistry in these roles, it seems a TRAGEDY to waste that on making that a cheap, nasty, they-alway-jump-each-other-at-inappropriate-times relationship and nothing more. Sigh.

s a Lee fan it’s still hard to get over the fact that his love was never fully reciprocated
Honestly? I don't think I'll ever get over it. I love Lee so deeply from inside his viewpoint that to have him not have the person he loves most in the world love him back is devastating. I know I'm not rational about it, but I've never had a character I feel this connected to in a TV show before and I can't not feel that pain. Also, it's not just Kara. It's EVERYONE. He got left with NOONE. In the vid I made of him, at the end, everyone turns away from him and he embraces his future anyway... and that's exactly what happened on the show AND IT BREAKS MY GODDAMN HEART.

Oops. Sorry! Got a little ranty... can you tell my emotions are still running high on this one?

they should have stayed consistent with the muted way they treated K/L in the finale
I know right?! The finale wasn't even INTERNALLY consistent! If you're going to go muted on Kara/Lee, then DO SO FULLY AND PROPERLY and don't dig up some old angst! It really did not add anything and sat really awkwardly in a way that makes me wonder if they'd had this footage ages just hadn't found a spot for it before and flung it in before the end because they had some time to kill. *bitter*

the preachy nature of the episode was insulting to the audience’s intelligence
I've found BSG insulting to my intelligence for a good season and a bit, but this took even that to a new level of awful.


(no subject) - chani86 on March 24th, 2009 12:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 04:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chani86 on March 24th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 25th, 2009 07:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chani86 on March 24th, 2009 12:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 24th, 2009 04:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chani86 on March 24th, 2009 11:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 25th, 2009 07:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on March 23rd, 2009 08:51 pm (UTC)
that AU where Lee went to the Pegasus and Kendra went to Galactica
YES YES YES YES YES YES, I am BEGGING YOU!!!!!! *squees anticipatorially*

TSCC 2.19 is Last Voyage of the Jimmy Carter.
thrace_adama: Politician Lee sternthrace_adama on March 23rd, 2009 10:36 pm (UTC)
Oooh, I'll definitely be interested to read several of those posts.

BSG definitely broke hearts on Friday, mine included, so thanks for posting about it. You were so, so right to get out when you did. I'll always love the characters, though, and K/L especially, so I'm still trying to make some sort of peace with it. I want go back to loving them without the thought looming of how their journeys, together and apart, came to naught. Sobbing my way through all their scenes throughout the series would not be fun!

I only watched the pilot of Kings and it really didn't work for me at all. Which is too bad, as I think it's a neat idea.

And Dollhouse...idk. It's okay. I enjoy watching it, but don't feel attached at all.

Have a great time away! :)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara glowybop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:18 am (UTC)
were so, so right to get out when you did
Heh. Well... I think I managed to swerve at the last minute but I still felt the impact, if that makes any sense? I need to make my own peace with the show and I think that could take a long time. I think many of us need to reclaim the characters and journey that we loved, regardless of the ending. I know I'll be looking to do that somehow when I get back...

Yes, I feel the same way about Kings and Dollhouse.

See you when I get back! :)
(no subject) - thrace_adama on March 25th, 2009 02:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 25th, 2009 07:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
samstareaglesamstareagle on March 23rd, 2009 11:02 pm (UTC)
Yep...although I made myself INCREDIBLY ZEN while watching it, so nothing really hit me...and YES, I unfortunately saw Kara's ending coming a mile away... And the show threw in sooo much mysticism (that Ron conveniently tried to ignore cause all Hollywood writers go pathetically PC when you ask them for a direct answer about made up religion) that I actually felt great for Maggie...she got to go out killing thousands of Cylons, then crossed over the River to be reunited with her family, and made Elysium PilotBabies with Billy for the rest of eternity while the "living" Humans scrounge around in the grass and get eaten by Giant Sloths...lol. Seriously, what happened to the LOK??? Ron totally wussed out of giving ANY answer, the only answer being that BSG was a TRUE polytheist SciFi verse... At least Lucas wasn't afraid to make rules for a made up religion...

And how come Helo and Sharon never made any more kids??? They were still horny as teenagers for each other, and yet we're left to believe that not one of Helo's miracle sperm ever made it past the goal line again??? THAT is the biggest plothole of the entire show!!! LOL!!!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee secret weaponbop_radar on March 24th, 2009 02:22 am (UTC)
HA! You managed to add to my list of complaints about the finale. Always good! I hadn't even thought through that Helo/Sharon thing but yeah...

Ron totally wussed out of giving ANY answer, the only answer being that BSG was a TRUE polytheist SciFi verse
Yeah, and that's a wank. If it really was then fine, signal that from the beginning, instead of emphasising the realism, don't just use it to write yourself out of plotholes!

At least Lucas wasn't afraid to make rules for a made up religion..
And you NEED rules, damn it! All writers need to set themselves rules in their universe creation. Rules that can't be broken. Because otherwise you will lose your readers' trust. That's Writing 101, but I fear Mr Moore skipped that class...

while the "living" Humans scrounge around in the grass and get eaten by Giant Sloths...lol
This is true. I kind of want to see them get eaten. Is that wrong? ;)

I too achieved some zen through having seen much of this coming, but the finale still managed to be worse than I had anticipated which believe me was QUITE A FEAT. Actually it was about on par with what I thought would be the final overall resolution, but just worse when it came to Lee... I did expect him to end up alone but I didn't think they'd do it so meanly or heavy-handedly. (That pigeon! YE GODS.)