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20 April 2012 @ 03:52 pm
Lip Service Season 2 spoiler  
Some asshole spoiled me (rightly or wrongly it doesn't really matter--pisses me off equally much) for Season 2 Lip Service, which starts today. In a comment to 'I'm not yours' on Youtube. Which... ok, I know comments sections on YouTube become more like public forums than LJ posts but it still feels like someone spat in my face after I handed them a bunch of flowers. :(

ME: 'Here, have my soul in vid form!'

I am so upset right now! :(((((((((((

This was the ONLY show that I thought might give me something I really care deeply about in the rest of this whole year ... TGW is gearing up for a Peter-focused finale (ugh), OUAT remains ludicrous, GoT is chronically disappointing to me ... I was so fucking THRILLED that I was getting a show I really loved back again.

And I'm sorry--I'm built like that, I care about not being spoiled when it's a show I really really love. I want to have a chance to live the whole journey. Of course there was every chance that season 2 wouldn't live up to the promise of Season 1, but regardless I wanted that experience...

So they say Cat dies.



Maybe I shouldn't watch it.

But I will anyway. And be miserable.

But there goes another show down the fucking toilet, seriously ...

Without even getting into whether you ship Cat/Frankie or Cat/Sam, Cat was CLEARLY a primary focus character of the whole show. Without her, I don't know to make of it. And if she dies, it's quite early--like episode 2 or something. :((



Another character and another ship I loved completely FUCKED OVER by the authors.


And if it turns out not to be true well then FUCK THAT PERSON ON YOUTUBE EVEN MORE.

PS. Yes, I will remind myself that probably that spoiling person was just in their own pain or whatevs and didn't mean to hurt or annoy others. Rational brain is rational. But waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

This entry was originally posted at http://bop-radar.dreamwidth.org/242509.html. comment count unavailable comments Comment here or there, as you will.
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
Current Mood: angryangry
amnisiasamnisias on April 20th, 2012 07:58 am (UTC)
Oh, sweetie, I'm sorry to hear that you got spoiled. Me, I hate any kind of spoilers (even tiny ones) with a vengence, and am completely buffled that some people actually actively seek them out. What's the fun in knowing beforhand, rather than being 'in the moment' while watching and experiencing emotional reactions to things as they happen. I even get annoyed if they put actors names in the titel sequence if it spoiles for the episode.

Anyway, I don't watch Lip Service, so I thought I do a quick search on that spoiler to evaluate the validitiy. I've not found anything on this anywhere else. Actually, you vid came up top on a couple of searches. That chica is either from Spain or South America, so I seriously doubt that she has inside information like that. Or that she'd choose a youtube vid to tell the world about it. She has a habit a leaving slightly trolly comments (e.g. I like x's version better), so I'd say the chances that she actually knows anything are on the slim side.

But either way, whether you got spoiled or trolled, big hugs and cuddles, because I know how bad it feels.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Frankie/Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 10:06 am (UTC)
Yeah I really hate spoilers. :( Like you, I don't get the whole spoiler mentality.

I did a check though after I got spoiled and I think they got the idea from here? :(( It's not stated explicitly but signs seem to be there.

Thank you so much for being so thoughtful as to look though! It's possibly all just a big mistake ... but that mindfuck aspect of spoilers is another reason why I cannot fathom why people like them!
m_a_r_i_k_s: to the heavensm_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 11:34 am (UTC)
What's the most horrendous way to make Kara pay for her mistakes of the past and fuck her up for many years to go? - Have her live through Lee's death again, for real.

My problem is that both shows (even if LS does it because of the actress' decision to leave and go to the US I don't give a shit) make the most primitive and hypocritical of conclusions in writing: you cheat on your spouce/official partner = you pay the ultimate price in life. Only for some reason nobody pays it in RL like that.

And there's sick irony in the fact that in BSG Kara is the one to initiate the cheating... in LS it's Cat - against all her principles.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee!facebop_radar on April 20th, 2012 11:39 am (UTC)
Yessssssssss OMG THAT. The 'you pay the price' thing. It was what I thought earlier ... that 'ok, that's what we're in'. The adultery = DEATH trope. :((
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 11:43 am (UTC)
Seems like it doesn't matter if you regret it later, either (in the case of Cat) ... you pay the price regardless. :((

Seriously: WHY WRITERS??
m_a_r_i_k_s: to the heavensm_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 11:49 am (UTC)
Well, she'll do it again before she goes. You'll see a very beautiful scene for sure. Maybe several.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 11:55 am (UTC)
Yeah ... :(

It's going to be hard not to go into cynicism about that, not feel like it's the manipulation of the authors totally. But I know I'll end up watching ... and the actresses are so great, maybe I'll even find something in those scenes that feels 'real'. That will make it all more tragic of course. :( But I definitely have anger about the decision right now. I hope in time I can shake it. But I cannot think of ANY way in which they could write a death ending for Cat that feels like it is organic to the way the show was set up.

What is it? A story of Frankie losing every single important person to her through death???
m_a_r_i_k_s: contrast1m_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:00 pm (UTC)
Frankie will have her newly found mum right?
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara can't notbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:09 pm (UTC)
Oh right. That will make it all ok. Thing is, without Cat Frankie has only drinking and sex as her coping mechanisms. Somehow I don't think finding mum is going to be a rosy ending ... but without Cat will she have any motivation to rise above self-destruction? :( I don't see it... not from what we saw in season 1. I guess they'll write it differently though.

Edited at 2012-04-20 12:09 pm (UTC)
m_a_r_i_k_s: KL_minim_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:15 pm (UTC)
They can always write her mum as a much better person than her father told her she was.

And I suspect she'll find the motivation in her connection with someone else.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Frankie/Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:22 pm (UTC)
Well there's no one in the current cast that I could buy Frankie finding such a connection with ... so they'd have to introduce someone new (slutty Australian chick?) and in a couple of episodes I wouldn't buy it. :( Even if they write it 'well' I'd find it painful as hell to watch.
m_a_r_i_k_s: Redm_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:40 pm (UTC)
I guess the new character yeah. Sadie will team up with Sam and Frankie with that new girl. They'll throw a party on Cat's grave.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:44 pm (UTC)

I'll be disappointed in Sam too if that's how it plays out ... and it might well. :(
m_a_r_i_k_s: KL_minim_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:08 pm (UTC)
What is it? A story of Frankie losing every single important person to her through death???

Maybe. As far as I remember they had her aunt's funeral in episode 2 of S1 right? Similar scenario for S2 could be veeery organic. Paving a way for her to find her true path in life :P As an independant and self-sufficient woman))).
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee separationbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:12 pm (UTC)
They did.


Riiiight. It's this amazing journey where at first you're devastated by someone's death but try to hide it and need someone there at a funeral to help you. But then you GROW EVEN MORE ... so much that WHEN THAT PERSON DIES, you can face it ALONE. And can cheerfully drink yourself into oblivion without any help at all. ::eyeroll::

Amazing journey.

Edited at 2012-04-20 12:13 pm (UTC)
m_a_r_i_k_s: Redm_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:30 pm (UTC)
And can cheerfully drink yourself into oblivion without any help at all. ::eyeroll::

Yeah I'm pretty sure Frankie will cope like Anders did: go drink herself under the table and then start fucking everything that moves again. Then she'll slow down and find herself some new hobby. Like flying planes. And her mum will help explaining how amazing she is, I'm telling you.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee in darknessbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:34 pm (UTC)
Yeah, sadly I think you are right. In this case I think Kara is the stronger of the two--Kara's grief had far more grace, and was far more subtle, as we explored so recently. I'd love to write Frankie actually finding it truly sobering and needing to take private time and space... but I think it very unlikely the show will write it that way. Apart from anything else, they need her to be fucking someone in every episode, apparently. :(
m_a_r_i_k_s: to the heavensm_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 11:57 am (UTC)

One of those scenes. Seriously you should just take the beauty and soak it up while it lasts.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Empire Records crybop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:06 pm (UTC)
Oh great. Frankie messing with Cat's head and a whole lot of guilt. :( Feels DISGUSTING. Knowing Cat dies makes the whole scene not just cheap but cruel.
m_a_r_i_k_s: contrast1m_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:21 pm (UTC)
Well you told me Frankie can't help it. And she's not the one full of guilt here.

I like Cat's facial expression at the end though, how she tilts her head to the ceiling.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Frankiebop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:24 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I meant Cat's guilt. :( But I kind of hate Frankie in that scene... I probably would hate her if I didn't know Cat died, but it's awful to watch knowing that. I know Frankie's just got her armour up because Cat went off with Sam on holiday (I guess), but it's really painful to see after she was so open and vulnerable with her last season.
m_a_r_i_k_s: contrast1m_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 12:35 pm (UTC)
I watched it before I read that spoiler btw. And I found it difficult to stomach Frankie's behavior. Seriously she acts like she owns a pet and knows that if you wave in front of its nose with some juicy fruit - it'll come along and do watever you want it to.

But I do like Cat's expression... so full of emotion... not just guilt.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Frankie/Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 12:42 pm (UTC)
Mmm. Ok... Yeah I was revolted by the behaviour and you describe it perfectly. And it's disgusting to treat Cat like that. It's a different kind of cruelty than we see with pilots--but it actually builds this horrible wall between them because it implies Cat is prisoner to her attraction to Frankie. When it is Frankie, if anyone, who is prisoner to her love for Cat. And it's disgusting that she takes that love and makes it ... this. It's also horribly self-destructive because it takes the beautiful thing in her life and makes it like every other 'connection'.

I watched again. It's an interesting expression. You're right--at the end there it's not just guilt. It looks like awareness of something... like some recognition of something, I'm not sure what. Something about herself or Frankie or both of them.
m_a_r_i_k_s: Redm_a_r_i_k_s on April 20th, 2012 01:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah it's painful to see her treat Cat like that. I know it's not true, that's not her real feelings reflection but god it's unbearable and unfair... And Kara was never sure of Lee's feelings for her (unlike Frankie) so she never treated him with this kind of abuse coming from certainty. She had other forms of abuse... It's also how she uses the fact that Cat nodded to her "do you still love me?" in the last season... she really wants to control, be on top always.

Cat's impression... I don't know to me it's kind of a reflection of her surrender. She does know Frankie's usual tricks, she's not blind. But she can recognise that her reaction is not just a result of those tricks I think... it's a genuine something that is plain too strong. It's the kind of state where you're on the verge of crying when there's some emotional release close as well. I don't even know how to desribe it...
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Catbop_radar on April 20th, 2012 10:58 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it's different than what we saw from Kara ever--a very different ugliness. :(

But you're right, I think, that Cat is sort of connecting with the fact that it's not just Frankie's tricks that she's responding too. After all, she was tense and hyper-aware of her before Frankie even moved towards her. But she doesn't totally fight it. In fact, she sort of lets that scene unfold as if she's just watching herself (and Frankie, but I can feel an internal focus from her) and then at the end it sort of coalesces.
m_a_r_i_k_s: scar_kissm_a_r_i_k_s on April 21st, 2012 06:37 am (UTC)
I did watch the new episode last night. Crazy...
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Empire Records crybop_radar on April 21st, 2012 10:54 am (UTC)
I can't find a copy yet. :(
m_a_r_i_k_s: #2m_a_r_i_k_s on April 21st, 2012 10:32 am (UTC)
First sign you might notice is how they changed the credits. Anyway... when I get out of my pit for a minute I look at it all from the outside and I can almost laugh... because I see a very clear message saying: "You thought you worked through so many issues with BSG finale dear, well, let's see if you really did now!" )))

And you have to admit it's hilarious on some level... )))
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on April 21st, 2012 10:56 am (UTC)
Not feeling much hilarity right now... I'm glad you can at all.

I guess they changed a whole lot this season then.

I'll keep on looking for a copy... :(((
m_a_r_i_k_s: Redm_a_r_i_k_s on April 21st, 2012 11:35 am (UTC)
Don't worry there were some great scenes in it here and there still. Getting it over with now isn't an option since there's still episode 2 to come. I'm pretty sure I'll be done with the show after that.

I really feel for Cat. And I wanted to punch the writers for having put a certain phrase in Sam's mouth.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Deborah Morganbop_radar on April 22nd, 2012 06:40 am (UTC)
Yeah, that phrase... that phrase is really agonising to me. :(

Yup, can't see myself continuing with it after Cat's death in ep 2. :( At least I hope for my own sanity that I don't.
m_a_r_i_k_s: Redm_a_r_i_k_s on April 22nd, 2012 06:54 am (UTC)
Oh I think you'll watch the third episode too. IMaybe more. If only just to see Frankie's reaction.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Pilots: co-pathetic foreverbop_radar on April 22nd, 2012 09:06 am (UTC)
But you won't?
I probably will because I am shit like that, a masochist, and it's so painful I can't just bury it. But I wish I wasn't like that.
amnisiasamnisias on April 21st, 2012 10:44 am (UTC)
Oh, no, so it IS true, after all? That's fucked up. Hope you get through it without falling out with fandom alltogether. Sadly, I have nothing else to offer you ...
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on April 22nd, 2012 06:41 am (UTC)
Thanks anyway! ((()))
I'm pretty fucking pissed right now but I will get through it. Sigh. Fandom does have its (massive) ups and downs. ;)
Greatshow: pic#103464151greatshow on April 21st, 2012 08:32 pm (UTC)
Apparently, the new season of Lip Service was released in Brazil first. That's how some of these people know what will happen. I just commented on it and other things lower (have to wait until my comment is unmarked as spam because of a link or all three links I included).

Edited at 2012-04-21 08:33 pm (UTC)
brokenmnemonic: BSG - Lee - Coldbrokenmnemonic on April 20th, 2012 08:49 pm (UTC)
Well, that sucks on many levels. I'm sorry your experience with watching the show has been ruined, whatever happens on the show or not.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Empire Records crybop_radar on April 21st, 2012 06:06 am (UTC)
Thanks. Yeah, it sucks. :(
Greatshow: pic#103464151greatshow on April 21st, 2012 08:18 pm (UTC)
You guys are talking about the bathroom scene, it seems. Sorry for the intrusion, but I landed here while searching through LiveJournal for Frankie/Cat discussions/things related to them as a couple. I'm back on LiveJournal for a bit while in the process of soon updating some fanfiction (which should take several days to update all of it) before I get back to real-life work and issues.

I didn't mind the bathroom scene between Frankie and Cat or think of it as abuse when I saw it. I saw it as Frankie communicating to Cat how powerful the pull is between them and that it's going to be difficult for either of them to fight it. That, with a pull like that, they clearly should be together. Not to mention, I found it very hot. But I do agree it was manipulation.

I also don't see how else Frankie can be open with Cat right now. She's been open with Cat about how she feels and what she wants, even when discussing Cat's plan to continue cheating on Sam. She's waiting on Cat now, and hasn't had sex with anyone else since confessing her feelings to Cat either of the two times she told Cat that she loves her.

On YouTube, I was also spoiled about what will happen to Cat (because some user who must have seen the Brazilian copy decided to ask "Why did Cat have to die?" or something very similar to that effect, on some clip scene of Frankie and Cat (maybe the bathroom scene) and I'm really upset about it. Not so much about being spoiled, but that it's going to happen at all. The show was built around Frankie and Cat's love story, and they have amazing chemistry. So to see that lost is just completely aggravating/devastating.

Laura Fraser (Cat) is currently in America, so I don't know if her moving had anything to do with the creators/writers killing her off. But if it did, they didn't have to kill off her character. They could have left things open, just in case Fraser were to ever return. Judging by the following interview, it looks like she was going to return for the whole season: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/showbiz/2012/04/15/scots-lip-service-star-laura-fraser-reveals-humilation-at-losing-out-on-role-in-hit-us-series-homeland-86908-23825718 She said, "Making the second series of Lip Service was a really great help. We had just moved to New York about a month previous to it getting the go ahead so it was really nice for me and my family to know we were leaving but would be coming back for an extended period."

I'm confused by that because it appears that they'd already filmed part of Season 2 before she moved to New York, which could mean that Cat's death was already filmed. But in that quote, she talks about knowing that she would be coming back for an extended period. So will she be back on the series in some way (though I can't imagine her coming back for a stint as a spirit/ghost; this isn't a soap opera or at least that kind of soap opera). Or does the "extended period" mean that she would be filming the rest of her scenes, including Cat's death scene?

Anyway, Episode 1 of Season 2 is now up at YouTube and at TV Links (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-m5NN9KMg and http://www.tv-links.eu/tv-shows/Lip-Service_24209/). I came across another YouTube upload of it too, but the audio eventually starts to lag behind. I didn't see anyone spoil what happens to Cat in the comments sections yet, most likely because Brazil is the only place where the second season aired days earlier (I think), but it's bound to happen eventually.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Catbop_radar on April 22nd, 2012 06:38 am (UTC)
Hey! Thanks for the message. Have now 'unspammed' you. I appreciate you finding hte links as well. :) I found the episode elsewhere in the meantime.

Didn't realised it aired early in Brazil! The comment that spoiled you was very similar to the one that spoiled me though. And yeah, now that the sting of being spoiled has passed (I hate spoilers on principle) the thing I'm really upset about is Cat dying. Like you say, even if the actress wasn't available for the whole season, there are other option. And wow, that article does make it sound like they COULD have had her for longer. GAH! So frustrating! She's a fabulous actress and will be a big loss from the series.

I totally agree that Frankie/Cat is central to the show... I really don't think it will stand alone without that and I'm devastated to lose it. My sympathies to you in being distraught about it also! I find the whole thing outrageous and it was painful watching episode 1 knowing what will come. :(
Greatshow: pic#103464151greatshow on April 23rd, 2012 03:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, Brazilian fans were going around blabbing what happens and I think the episode was even uploaded to YouTube by a likely Brazilian fan. The BBC three quickly got a hold of the situation, though, pulling any copies that may be online and asking Brazilian fans to stop spoiling it for others. They then put a stop to any episodes airing in Brazil until the episodes have aired in the UK first.

About Fraser, it sounds like they'd already filmed part of Season 2 and she came back to film the rest of her character's story or she came back to begin (and end) her character's Season 2 story.

It's definitely painful knowing what will happen. We are said to have gotten our payoff by some who have seen and are upset by what will happen to the Frankie/Cat story. I'm likely going to write fanfiction for this couple even more so now knowing about this.

My sympathies to you as well.

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on April 23rd, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
Well I am glad BBC Three did something about it ... But the damage was kind of already done, spoiler-wise. :( I hope some people escape spoiler-free. Sometimes it helps if someone tells you there are spoilers out there that you should avoid.

So they always planned for Cat to die? That's so hard to take from the writers. :( I know it can work that way--that there is more need of fanfic and other fanworks to fill the void when a show doesn't deliver what we want, but I doubt it will work that way for me. I'm too upset. You are strong to write anyway!
Greatshow: pic#103464151greatshow on April 24th, 2012 03:38 am (UTC)
Well, we know that the creator didn't always plan for Cat to die, since she built the show around the Frankie and Cat love story. But I know what you mean. Was it already planned for her to die before Season 2 got the go-ahead? I don't know. That's why I'm questioning if Season 2 had already started filming or completed filming before it got the go-ahead. Either way, I'm certain that killing Cat off had to do with Laura Fraser deciding to move. Did they have to kill Cat off just because of that? Of course not, just like we've agreed. So I hope Fraser speaking out about doing so many sex scenes, especially explicit ones, didn't play a role in her being written out. I'd like to think that the creator is more professional than that.

As for writing... It's likely that I will, but I'm not sure when. Once you've had more time to mourn the death of Cat, you may find that you'll want to write a Frankie/Cat story too.
Myth Llewellyn on April 23rd, 2012 01:20 am (UTC)
Hi guys, I hope you don't mind me jumping in for a quick message! I'm just a LJ reader, not writer, and came across your blog and convo on one of my random google's of Lip Service. Just wanted to warn you that there are now major spoilers for season 2 out there; I've found episode guides to series 2 online, with summaries of each individual episode. I'm not going to say anything about what happens, promise!!! I really hope you guys don't come across them, I won't post the full link on here in case any of you accidentally click on it but it's on cultbox.co.uk so don't click on any links to cultbox!!! Hope you all still manage to enjoy the series, I think it'll be a great one. Mai x
Greatshow: pic#103464151greatshow on April 23rd, 2012 03:47 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure what could be just as major as Cat dying. I've read the episode guides for episodes 2, 3 and 4 at the site you speak of when I was desperate to confirm if the "Cat dies" spoiler is true. The summaries aren't major spoilers and I can't believe that major spoilers would be put in the episode guides. For example, they summarize without stating that Cat dies. But I did notice mention of "dramatic events and unexpected consequences" and how everyone is "still reeling with shock," and how she isn't mentioned in any of the episode summaries after Episode 2, which was a hint. The summaries for episodes 5 and 6 aren't yet available. I doubt I'll enjoy the rest of the season or any future seasons without the Frankie/Cat love story.