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24 January 2007 @ 06:31 pm
Battlestar Galactica 3.12 Rapture  
This new timeslot is not conducive to me writing my response post in a timely manner. :-( ... I guess that just means I'll be extra grateful if anyone actually responds! :-)

I'm not sure I'm a fan of this mid-season cliffhanger thing. Rapture didn't quite pack the punch it needed to to justify the Extreme Drama of the cliffhanger set-up. And I was a little disconcerted by a trend towards the writers avoiding some of the trickier issues that the cliffhanger posed. However, it had some moments I really really loved. So, mixed feelings!

The not so good
To get what I didn't like over with first, I felt the authors wrote themselves 'get out jail free' cards on the following points:
- The Lee/Anders confrontation ending with Lee getting Dee to go instead. It made it seem as if Lee only did so to save face with Anders. Yet, I don't really buy that. He's too good a tactician to avoid an obvious solution like that in the first place. But that leaves him having a pissy fight with Anders just for the heck of it. Hm. o.O
- Already unsettled by that, I threw up my hands in despair when Dee started getting shot at in her position anyway so that she had to run down the hill regardless. Cop. Out. Dee seemed reluctant until that happened--I want to know if she would have told Lee to frak off if she hadn't been shot at, damn it! If we're supposed to believe that it was really dangerous for Dee to rescue Kara, then do NOT have her shot at in her 'safe' location. Grr. And if Dee was in danger where she was anyway, then Lee had no reason (other than the emotional one) not to suggest she go see if she can help Kara before Anders cracked it with him.
Add to the mix the oh-so-convenient hard belly of the little one (ensuring that Sharon could leave the baseship immediately) and the fact that we didn't really get to find out whether Adama would have nuked the planet or not, and I was a bit generally miffed at the avoidance of some of the trickier plotting.

Lee
On to what I loved... Lee! (of course) Action!Lee is always good and I was pleased to see that his leadership qualities were greatly in evidence. A couple of touches that I appreciated were Lee's expression of faith in the guerrilla tactics of Sam's team ('they stopped a lot on Caprica while we were running for our lives'), the look he exchanged with Sam after they carried the injured civilian out, and his 'meh' response to the revelation of the nova ('OK, we can still blow it'). That's my boy! Thinking of the practical! ;-)

In the shippy arena, Jaimie's performance was spot-on as always--I loved Lee's response to Sam's threat to kill him. 'If she's dead, I'll let you' is quintessential Lee and Jaimie delivered it the way he needed too--as if it was a given that if Kara didn't exist he would have no reason to go on living--life would be meaningless and death inviting. He's been a breath away from there before and Kara was his only regret.

The reunion scene tore my heart out since it seems that Sam got to Kara partly by the luck of being the one nearer her (because Lee was actually doing something useful still, I reckon!). Ouch! His stricken expression broke me, though it was hardly a surprise. But what would Kara have done if Lee had run to her first instead of Sam, I wonder? Lee's delayed hug of a stone-like Dee was pretty awful too--I felt a lot of things were expressed in that--relief that she was alive, guilt, regret and remorse for what he asked of her, as well as a selfish desire for comfort. Not pretty. I couldn't read Kara's expression in that scene at all, so I'll have to hunt out some Kara-folks to explain her to me!

Kara and Dee
I was up and down like a rollercoaster with Dee in this ep. She made me scream with rage with her pissy 'my husband made me blah, blah, blah' speech. Bullshit, love! You made that choice yourself, and now you're just revelling in being catty about it. Having said that, Action!Dee is rather great, and her bitchiness can be fun to watch--I loved her slapping Kara and telling her to keep it together. I will continue to be frustrated as hell with Dee if she doesn't actually address this issue with her husband.

Poor Kara's hands! *whimper* Love, love, loved Kara's 'I have to cheat to keep the pieces all neat' speech. That was brilliantly quintessential Kara, just as Lee's 'I'll let you' line was quintessential Lee.

And YAY!! Her paintings!! Which brings me to...

Hello Helo!
This was a damn good episode for Helo! I wasn't expecting that, but I found his plot arc the most emotionally compelling. I loved the darkness of what he went through and Tahmoh completely sold me on his story, even though I still have ambiguous feelings about Athena herself. I love that we've seen a Cylon ask to be killed so they could be downloaded into a new body--that's just brilliant! It's an interesting extension of Leoben's repeated downloads with Kara, and it poses such interesting emotional questions. What does it mean when you can hold your wife's dead body in your arms and have her walk back into your life later? How much trust does it take to risk such a violent separation? While I still think the resolution of the baby issue was a bit quick, I adored seeing Helo reunited with his child at the end of the episode.

And then we got bonus!Helo in him joining the dots with Kara's paintings. I loved their little banter, and what a fantastic mystery! So, um, maybe Kara IS a Cylon? I'm unspoiled, but this definitely throws out a big hint that she might be. Alternatively, she could fit within the human religious belief system and be one of the prophesied people who lead them to Earth--she's already played a key role in getting them this far... *ponders* Regardless, I like the possiblities this throws up. How confronting to discover that something you've been doodling since you were a child has such signficance. And she mentioned Leoben! Wow.

Caprica Six
The other character I found myself unexpectedly feeling a lot for in this episode was Caprica Six. I really loved the way she responded with such compassion for both Eight models in regards to their connection to humans--it makes good sense given her own past--she understands how hard it is to come to terms with having had close emotional connections to humans that only lead to pain and having to face that. And then her drive to protect the infant really moved me. Snapping Sharon's neck was such a great throwback to her mercy-killing of the baby in the mini-series! So I really felt for her when she got betrayed and imprisoned at the end--her actions were genuine and well-intentioned, and I fear she'll only be punished for it.

Religion and individual psychology
Gaius was, as always, entertaining! I loved when his calm dissolved into begging for the truth--and when it got right down to it, he's as self-interested and self-obsessed as always. His search for salvation is such an extreme one--he must be, not just a normal flawed human, but the Chosen One, and preferably a Cylon--the most important Cylon if possible! I'm delighted that he got conked on the head by Chief. This seems all very promising. *g*

I liked the way D'Anna's plot ended--Messianic complexes are dangerous---even though this one seemed to be grounded in a truth--she was granted vision of the final five Cylons (BIG surprise that they remain a mystery!) The final shot was really cool, I thought, and it's interesting that the Cylons are comfortable taking this option with a rebellious model.

Overall in this episode I liked the contrast between the search for religious or spiritual enlightenment--for meaning--and the practical, human-based decision making. Was the fate of the Temple really 'in the hands of the Gods' as Cally suggested, in the hands of atheist Lee, or in the hands of the Cylons? Everyone is fighting for control of destiny--not just their own but their species'. And yet how do they know they're not fighting fate? changing destinies? Is your fate any different whether you believe or not?
 
 
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
 
 
 
Beckysadface on January 24th, 2007 09:17 am (UTC)
I think I've been meaning to watch this show for a year now.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Clex lovebop_radar on January 24th, 2007 09:32 am (UTC)
Hee! You can take a Becky to water but you cannot make her drink! :-p
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K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Karabop_radar on January 24th, 2007 09:46 pm (UTC)
Yes, I'm optimistic too! :-) I'm eager to see them forge on with normal storyline!
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee/Kara boundbop_radar on January 24th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC)
Aww, thank you! *hugs*

I thought she was being sarcastic and kind of awesome, like “bitch, be glad I’m actually here to do this.”
Hee! It's funny--I loved her cutting off Kara's ramblings, but I didn't like her first sarcasm. There was a tinge too much martyr in it for me. Not sure. I do like her sarcasm, but it frustrates me because I don't understand at this point why she's staying with Lee. Maybe we'll get to see that at some stage? That would help me with her.

Yeah, I really liked that we got to hear Kara say she loves both Sam AND Lee. That's as I always expected, so I'm happy about that. And trapped! We love the trapped ones! \o/
(no subject) - daybreak777 on January 26th, 2007 10:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 27th, 2007 09:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - daybreak777 on January 28th, 2007 11:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 29th, 2007 03:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dianora2 on January 25th, 2007 04:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Becky: BSG Starbuck Andersbeeej on January 24th, 2007 05:51 pm (UTC)
I love this show. Each episode seems to present more questions than it does answers. You'd think that would get frustrating after a while (Lost, anyone?), but it doesn't.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara glowybop_radar on January 24th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC)
Ha! Yes. Actually this show is an interesting contrast with Lost--Lost just frustrated me because the more it continued the less profound the questions it raised seemed to be, whereas the more BSG continues, the more profound it becomes.
chimosa: pic#56266626chimosa on January 24th, 2007 06:45 pm (UTC)
...I honestly have nothing to say as far as BSG is concerned as i dont watch it. I mostly wanted to say

HI!HI!HI!HI! *waaaaaaaaaaaves*

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on January 24th, 2007 09:50 pm (UTC)
Hhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!! *waves back* What's doing in your world?! :-)
(no subject) - chimosa on January 24th, 2007 11:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 25th, 2007 12:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
blowjobs for jesus: bsg kara leo 2kristiinthedark on January 24th, 2007 09:08 pm (UTC)
As always, awesome meta. :)

I completely agree about the cliffhanger. I mean, who would really think that Adama was going to end up nuking the planet? Nobody! So, there wasn't any real tension.

I love, love, LOVE the idea that Kara might be a Cylon. That would be fantastic, plot-wise. The places the show could go plot-wise are just mind-boggling. I'd like to see that happen. And, yes! She mentioned Leoben and I went nuts. YAY!

Helo/Sharon tore my heart out. The actor who plays Helo did a great job of expressing the emotions running through him. Loved. I just love Sharon to bits, anyway. She rocks.

I liked the end of D'Anna, too. Very intriguing!

And this feels odd to say, but I was sympathetic with Dee in this ep. Probably the last time I'll ever type that. ;P

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee/Helobop_radar on January 24th, 2007 09:55 pm (UTC)
*giggle* Yeah, the Adama-will-nuke-planet scenario was just kind of daft.

So, so many possibilities where the show is concerned and I think it's cool that they've thrown out the possibility of Kara being a Cylon. Especially because she hates them and considers them machines, as does Lee.

The actor who plays Helo did a great job of expressing the emotions running through him. Loved.
I agree! \o/ They finally gave Tahmoh more to do than usual and his acting really 'levelled up'. I was all proud of him, as I've always liked the guy (most of my Season 1 rage against Gaius was because he took Helo's place in the escape raptor in the mini-series and I'd already latched on to Helo).

I was sympathetic with Dee in this ep.
That's funny! I understand, though. I wasn't, but I have been at other times. I guess we all have our moments with her? Her situation is pitiable, so I do get pangs of sympathy and then I just want to slap her and say, 'well DO something about it!' Like sleep with Gaeta! Like talk to your husband! Still, her snark can be fun--more fun that Sam's passivity.
The First Evilasta77 on January 25th, 2007 12:27 am (UTC)
I think it goes beyond ego that Baltar wants to be a Cylon. If he is a Cylon it will also, in his mind, excuse his betrayal of humanity.

I don't think anyone gets why Dee is still with Lee. Any sympathy I had for her is gone. I was able to convince myself that prior to the fleet reuniting and Kara and Lee beating each others brains in that Dee had convinced herself that given enought time with her and away from Kara that Lee would fall in love with her. But now she's confronted with some harsh truths and instead of admiting she was wrong and walking away she's choosing, thus far, to stay with a man who is in love with another woman. How dare she be bitchy? This is now a situation she has created for herself. I've lost respect for her.

Everyone is fighting for control of destiny--not just their own but their species'. And yet how do they know they're not fighting fate? changing destinies? Is your fate any different whether you believe or not?

I'm more of a free will gal vs fate and destiny which is why I'm very leary of Kara's destiny storyline, but it does raise interesting questions. For instance, Leoben's words to Kara about her destiny are given significant weight by what Helo presents to her. She seems to be accpeting that her fate may be sealed. But had Adama followed through and nuked the planet she'd be dead and the road to earth may have gone with her. So is the future set or not?
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Karabop_radar on January 25th, 2007 02:37 am (UTC)
I think it goes beyond ego that Baltar wants to be a Cylon. If he is a Cylon it will also, in his mind, excuse his betrayal of humanity.
I'm not sure that does go beyond ego! Why should his betrayal of humanity be excused? To me that's an entirely ego-driven desire!

This is now a situation she has created for herself. I've lost respect for her.
Yeah... I could only view her as a victim for so long. She's complicit in the situation now as far as I'm concerned and she'll only regain my sympathy by addressing the issue constructively. Ick!

So is the future set or not?
Yeah, I always get sucked in to questions like this! On a personal level I'm a huge believer in free will, so I always empathise with characters who have a similar outlook. However, in literature or TV or films, I really enjoy the theme of fate and destiny and I usually respond really well to ambiguity about whether destiny plays a part. 'Course I like people to fight it, usually! But it does make for fun questions. And at the moment, despite the apparently profound revelation of Kara's connection to the temple, there is no clear evidence that she's driven by fate. What is her survival really dependent on? Chance, the Cylons backing off, Adama's backdown, Lee's decision-making, Dee's rescue, and arguably Sam's insistence on rescuing her.
sarmoti: BSG - Helo and Leesarmoti on January 25th, 2007 01:56 am (UTC)
This new timeslot is not conducive to me writing my response post in a timely manner.

It's kind of cool though cause it prolongs the discussion! I definitely noticed that there were fewer people around to insta-meta right after the show on Sunday, but now people's post are rolling in throughout the week and before you know it, it'll be Sunday again!

On to what I loved... Lee! (of course)

Lee was awesome. Awesome awesome. Mmm. I really enjoyed seeing him and Sam fightin' the fight, halting the pettiness for a while and getting the job done. I think they both gained respect for each other while working together, and I think that will play a part in how the deal with Love Quandrangle stuff in the future. I feel like they now understand that they're both "good guys," that they both love Kara and that if she wants the other guy, sure it'll hurt, but at least the other guy is a good guy who will be good to her. Okay, I have no idea if I made sense just then. :)

What does it mean when you can hold your wife's dead body in your arms and have her walk back into your life later? How much trust does it take to risk such a violent separation?

I found this really compelling too. It's such a strange concept, to be able to literally kill your beloved and s/he will actually come back. Hard to imagine what would go through someone's head in that situation, and Tahmoh was great at showing how difficult this was for Helo, knowing it had to be done and that it would (probably) be okay, but it's still such a risk and a terrible thing to have to do.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Jamie Bamber smrt is sexybop_radar on January 25th, 2007 02:42 am (UTC)
It's kind of cool though cause it prolongs the discussion!
Oh, I like that you're finding the silver lining! :-) The timeslot is bad for me because in Australian time, it means the ep's not up for downloading until the wee hours of Tuesday morning, and then I'm asleep, so the earliest I can download is Tuesday morning, but then I'm at work, so the earliest I can watch it is Tuesday night. *weeps* And then I have to fit in meta on a weeknight! Not that that will stop me...

I think they both gained respect for each other while working together, and I think that will play a part in how the deal with Love Quandrangle stuff in the future
Hope so! I like the idea that they've got out their pissiness and can admit respect for each other now.

Tahmoh was great at showing how difficult this was for Helo, knowing it had to be done and that it would (probably) be okay, but it's still such a risk and a terrible thing to have to do.
*nods* I was blown away by his performance. It was really fantastic and captured my imagination--how confusing it would be! Killing your beloved but with faith that you'll be reunited later... at one level that's what hyper-religious people feel, so I'm sure you would question yourself--are you just clinging to a ridiculous hope? And while the proof that Cylons download is solid, neither of them knew what would happen to Athena aboard the baseship. She could have been captured or even had her model removed entirely (as we saw later with D'Anna). *shudders* Scary stuff!
(no subject) - bloodygoodgirl on January 25th, 2007 04:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kasey Helo's lollypopbop_radar on January 25th, 2007 10:10 am (UTC)
Oh, sexy new Tahmoh icon! ;-)

I know what you mean about the Cylon thing--I don't actually think Kara will be one, though she may be the one that finds Earth. My bet's on either Kara or Gaius for that. No idea who will die (DEE PLEASE!) and pretty unsure about who's a Cylon too. My main problem is I don't want anyone to be a Cylon when I really think about it. *lol*

GOOD question about 'is she the one that dies'. I don't know! I'll go poke around the meta circles and see what people's thoughts are on this. Personally, I think that if she IS that's another cop-out where the writers are concerned--or possibly just overstatement by the promo department--since she could be 'revived' at some stage.
(no subject) - bloodygoodgirl on January 25th, 2007 09:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 25th, 2007 10:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
dianora: apollodianora2 on January 25th, 2007 04:55 am (UTC)
I agree with all of your "not-so-good"s, though I enjoyed the episode very much. (Although a lot of that is because I couldn't stand D'Anna and now she's gone. Woo hoo!)

I think that even if Lee and Kara had seen each other first they wouldn't have done anything, just stopped a few feet apart and he would've been all, "Good to see you alive, Captain," and Kara would've been all, "Thanks, Major," and been super angsty and pining and then they would have hugged their spouses but still looked at each other while they did just like it happened on the show. Hee.

Speaking of which, I love the moment where Lee hugs Dee -- and then turns her body so he can look at Kara. LOL. That is so not cool, Lee. But I love it anyway.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee in darknessbop_radar on January 25th, 2007 10:16 am (UTC)
Yeah, I wasn't mad keen on D'Anna. I was hitting my limit of how much I could take of her 'special destiny'. So yay!

I looove your take on what would have happened if Lee and Kara had seen each other first. Heee! Yes, you're right--one way or another, the emotional gist of that scene would have been the same.

and then turns her body so he can look at Kara. LOL. That is so not cool, Lee. But I love it anyway.
HA! Yes, me too! So not cool! But GREAT!
A little evil part of me would love to hear Dee's internal monologue during that scene: 'OK, big frakking surprise--he's pining for her. Is he even going to NOTICE me?! OMG. He's noticed me. Oh, Lee, do NOT pull this fake remorse crap on me! Oh, you think you can HUG me now? That's just great! I know you're still thinking about... what the FRAK!!! You're looking at her!! I know it!! I FRAKKING HATE YOU!' At least I wish those were her thoughts, but I fear they may have been more mushy than that. Damn!

Lee is so hilarious that I must LOVE HIM! :-D
CapnZebbie: stalkerkittycapnzebbie on January 25th, 2007 05:42 am (UTC)
This is the first time I've watched the show in a while. I've been reading the summaries at Scifi.com to catch up, and I realized that I lost track around the Pegasus episode. But I really enjoyed the episode, despite not knowing what some of the backstory was. I'm looking forward to getting up with the marathon they had last Monday (I taped it).

I sometimes think better of the Cylons than I do of the humans.

I wonder who D'Anna was talking to during her vision?

The D'Anna solution reminded me of something that happened in a scifi story about these aliens called Fuzzies. If one of their people turned out to be psycho- or sociopathic (the Fuzzies called it "not wise"), the Fuzzies would put them to death and take them out of the gene pool, so they became the sanest race in the universe.

Also, that hug between Lee and Dee was brilliant acting by Jamie Bamber.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee collapsedbop_radar on January 25th, 2007 10:20 am (UTC)
Oh, yay! I'm glad you enjoyed it! You'll enjoy the backstory if you enjoyed the last Lee/Dee hug--Jamie's been acting his little heart out all season with that stuff--so have fun with the marathon.

I sometimes think better of the Cylons than I do of the humans.
*nods* At times, I do too. There are moments when I really get the sense that we're meant to wonder whether they might not actually be the more evolved species. Perhaps they really are destined to take over! I like that. It throws up interesting questions. :-)

I've no idea who D'Anna was talking to--other than one of the 'final five' Cylons who noone knows who they are yet... presumably someone we know. But as to who it is, I'm clueless.

Oh... the sanest race in the universe... that's a fascinating concept.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 29th, 2007 03:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
hoolia goolia: Sexy back - Karaboom_queen on January 25th, 2007 08:23 pm (UTC)
Oooh, awesome meta Boppy. I like having the discussions dragged out over the whole week too (and I also cannot fault you for posting today because I still haven't posted meta about this ep either even though I loved it *hides*).

Action!Lee was fabulous indeed. So was Emo!Lee--the voice crack in the "If she's dead, I'll let you" was so good. JB pwns that scene. And the buddy-cop thing with Anders was great--both on the ground and then with that knee-nudge in the hangar bay.

I was wondering about the luck/timing thing with the hugs at the end too--Anders noticed Kara first, so he got to the hug first. There are a million fangirlish what-if's that could be built around that; my favorites being: would Lee have had the guts to finally acknowledge/hug her publicly? And...would she have accepted/hugged-back in front of everyone? I love it!

The Dee bitch-slap killed me! It was the first time I warmed to her in a while.

I also loved Kara's drugged up confession/explanation of loving both Sam and Lee, being completely confused about it but still perpetuating the messed-up situation. Quintessential Kara indeed!

I could definitely stand more screen time for Helo. The emotional intensity of having to kill your spouse--regardless of whether they'll be back or not--was very well played. And the banter at the end with Kara was awesome. They are my other favorite buddy-cop pair. Kara needs a good friend to chat and goof with now that the relationship with Lee has so many layers and complications.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee boxing hugbop_radar on January 25th, 2007 10:02 pm (UTC)
Hee! Well I'm glad there's more of us late-meta-ers out there. And I'm glad to find people are still eager to chat about it. :-)

the voice crack in the "If she's dead, I'll let you" was so good. JB pwns that scene.
TOTALLY!

And the buddy-cop thing with Anders was great--both on the ground and then with that knee-nudge in the hangar bay.
I was so glad they wrote that in! I could watch more of that... *happy sigh* Lee's such a good guy at heart--he doesn't have it in him not to acknowledge that Sam really delivered in following his orders.

would Lee have had the guts to finally acknowledge/hug her publicly? And...would she have accepted/hugged-back in front of everyone? I love it!
I think Lee would have. Maybe it's just me, but I think he's reached a place where he finds it absurd that he can't have Kara honestly, and I think the overwhelming emotion of worrying about losing her after their angsty not-cheating would have driven him straight to her arms. And I'm sure he would have hoped that making it public would help convince Kara to divorce. But my guess is Kara would not have responded well to such behaviour--I doubt she would have clung quite so long as she did with Anders. But I love that she looked at Lee at the end.

They are my other favorite buddy-cop pair. Kara needs a good friend to chat and goof with now that the relationship with Lee has so many layers and complications.
Yeah, I agree. I hope we see Lee/Kara buddy-cop-ness again at some stage because I love them working together, but in the meantime, I would love to have so Kara-Helo time. They're a great friendship pair, and Kara needs some time to adjust to all that's happening, and to just have some time out, damn it! They just keep writing more and more hurdles for that girl... Lee needs someone too... oh! SAM! :-p
(no subject) - boom_queen on January 25th, 2007 10:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 26th, 2007 01:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - boom_queen on January 26th, 2007 01:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 26th, 2007 06:21 am (UTC) (Expand)