?

Log in

No account? Create an account
 
 
26 March 2007 @ 08:49 pm
Battlestar Galactica 3.20 Crossroads Part II  
It's probably fair to acknowledge upfront that I got just about everything I could have wanted from this episode. Just about. If I'd had my way, Laura would have been more swayed by Lee's testimony, and Dee would have been revealed as a Cylon. But you win some, you lose some. And in the win category, I got:
- Gaeta selling Gaius out (the angst! the subtext! the hilarity!)
- Gaius acquitted but cursed to life as a religious freak: huahahahahaa karma!
- Adama being less stabworthy than last week
- Tigh being revealed as a Cylon, which mindfrak-wise kicks ass
- Kara returning (yay!) and finding Earth (I knew eet, yay!)
- Lee being FRAKKING AWESOME, OMG! (I'll do cartwheels about him later, rest assured.)
- Lee and Kara's twinned destinies continue and we have PILOTS again, YAY!
So if you detect a note of euphoria in the following post, you can probably attribute it to that. I will, however, attempt some form of objectivity. Promise! ;-)

I liked the sense of tension building that was developed throughout the episode from the opening scene with Adama shaving in flickery lights. Laura in bed asking to be yelled at was terribly cute, and that scene successfully showed the intimacy that has grown between them. But it's turned on its head by the end of the episode.

The trial
I really really hope (though I'm not holding my breath) that some of the people bitching about Lee after last episode will feel a bit differently after this one. Seen as a whole, the set-up in Crossroads is magnificent. The trial put Lee in under so much pressure, pushing and testing him, seeing if his commitment to his ideals could really endure when it meant first putting Roslin on the stand, then testifying against his father. The trial was Lee's test by fire and he passed with flying colours. Yes, he was 'manipulated' by Lampkin, in the sense that Lampkin saw what sort of person Lee Adama was, saw how invaluable he would be to the defence team and made all the right moves to make the most of that. But Roslin and Adama tried to 'manipulate' him to their side as well. Lee went in clear-eyed: he knew everyone wanted to sway him, but he stuck to his guns even when that meant his wife walking out on him and his father calling him a liar and a coward. On the witness stand, the truth came out: Lee genuinely believed the trial to be fundamentally unfair.

I giggled to see Lee reciting from his grandfather's lawbooks. I have this image of him up all night 'swatting' from them. What he read out seemed like legal tactics 101 to me, but I'm no expert. It doesn't matter--Lee doesn't have the experience, but he trusts his grandfather's word, and the logic of it makes sense to him. He's good at tactics, and pushing for a mistrial did seem like a good idea, given their position.

Gaeta perjured himself! Gaeta perjured himself to bring Gaius down. I love that! I loved Gaeta's plot arc on New Caprica, ending in him confronting Gaius, and I was very intrigued by their recent interaction. This is a wonderful new chapter in their twisted relationship. It's very believable to me that someone would be so determined to see Gaius proved guilty that he would perjure himself to bring it about. Gaius calling out 'Oh, Felix!' and mocking him for missing at stabbing him in the neck was a riot (the non-literal one before the literal one later!).

Lee let slip that Adama had said Gaius didn't deserve a trial. Yes, it was sloppy of him if he really wanted to protect his father. No doubt there are a stack of fans out there cursing him for that. Personally, I thought it was another instance of very believable human behaviour. Of course Lampkin used that card once it was handed to him, and Lee's naivety and inexperience here is obvious. He doesn't want to testify against his father (yes, he does have personal loyalty!) and his emotional reaction is initially overwhelming: he's pissed off and in denial about what's happening, angry at both Lampkin and himself for getting himself in this position.

There was lovely balance in having Lee first cross-examine someone and force truths from them they'd rather not reveal, and then have Lee himself cross-examined against his will. He's seen both sides of the 'system' now.

I loved this scene so much--I loved every little nuance, from Gaius covering his face with his hands despairingly, to the prosecuting attorney's protests and Lee's slightly manic 'I agree!' in response. I thought the judges were fantastic, particularly the bossy blonde one.

Lee's speech
Oh, man! That speech! *swoons* I'm so in love with it, I'd almost type it out verbatim here, but I will not bore everyone quite that much. I still advise you to skip this bit if you don't want to hear me fangirling Lee ridiculously. *g*

Lampkin asks 'why do you believe that Gaius Baltar deserves to be acquitted?' Lee almost laughs before he answers. He's finding it hard to struggle past the absurdity of his position on the stand, and so he states what he sees as the obvious 'because the evidence does not support the charges'. He says it casually, knowing he's probably the only one in the room that cares. If the judges consider that to be true, then Gaius is acquitted, but Lee's so sure it doesn't matter what his opinion is, even if his assessment is objectively correct.

Lee then continues, hesitantly at first, but gaining confidence as he goes on--this reflects the way he's grown throughout the trial. By choosing to work for Gaius's defence, to define himself in this way, he's following an interest he's had since he was a child, he's using his logical brain, so good at tactical decision making, and he's coupling that with his passionate idealism and belief in democracy, even when that system is flawed and ugly. In doing this, he's becoming more Lee than ever before. It's a journey towards selfhood for him and, as we will see, towards ownership for what he's done. No, he didn't know going in what would happen during the trial, and he sure as hell didn't know what would pour out of him on the stand; it's a personal moment of epiphany for Lee as well as having profound consequences for the fleet as a whole.

Where Lee's argument really finds strength is when he asks what the difference is between Gaius and all the other (pardoned) collaborators. (THANK YOU for textualising that issue, show!) He looks directly at Roslin when he points this out, and there's so much emotion in his voice--I don't know how anyone could think he didn't really believe this or was just doing it to piss Daddy off or whatever the hell it was people were griping about last week. Lee sees the hypocrisy in Roslin's pursuit of a trial for Gaius despite pardonning everyone else, and I think it disappoints him profoundly, because he admires her so much.

Lee's list of peoples' misdeeds was fantastic fun! Yup, everyone's got blood on their hands around here! For a moment I thought he was even going to reveal that Helo had sabotaged his plan to eliminate the Cylons, but oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't know about that... doesn't matter! If he did, Helo would still be forgiven, *lol*.

Having already got me cheering and clapping with joy at his passionate appeal for fairness, Lee then took my heart completely captive with his critique of himself. It is so Lee to put himself under the microscope like this, and there is naturally a catharsis for him in saying these things publicly. The Olympic Carrier! (Oh, how long he's been carrying that one!) Mutiny (at inappropriate times)! And, oh, Lee, your guilt about jumping away in Pegasus! *heart-thump* OMG, that gutted me! Lee carries the weight of his decisions with him every day, but he also carries the weight of those he almost made, and it's telling that he brings up here the fact that he nearly didn't come back to rescue them from New Caprica. (Only you did, honey! You did!) Every decision can have terrible consequences and none of them are made lightly, but they are made by real, flawed people, who are driven by the personal as well as the politial, by their hearts as well as their heads, by anger and bitterness as often as by openness and love.

Oh, hang on, Lee's still talking: 'We are not a civilisation any more. We are a gang, and we're on the run and we have to fight to survive. We have to break rules, we have to bend laws, we have to improvise.' Aieeee!!! Isn't that just the best quote ever about the show?! And I love that it comes from Lee's mouth, because it has such added weight from someone who believes in and mourns for the civilisation they did have, who fights to retain it, but who in doing so has learnt, to the very core of his being, just how much you do need to break rules and improvise. The tension between civilisation and anarchy, between purpose and meaningless, is ever present, and Lee fights to bring order to his own world despite that. But he's not a starry-eyed romantic--he's very clear-eyed about their condition--and it was refreshing to be reminded of that here. Don't dismiss Lee Adama as a daft idealist: don't be so near-sighted. (There! My own personal little appeal!)

Another important aspect to Lee Adama is that he's very attuned to emotional energy (sounds wanky, I know!). He's not only capable of assessing the trial logically, he's also able to see the emotional truth about it: that it's built on shame and guilt. Here, he appeals directly and personally to his father. He turns to him, with emotion etched in his features, his jaw shaking with the pain of it. They have a collective memory of those days circling New Caprica and then jumping away. They grew close and they fought and they embraced. And they carried the guilt and shame together.

Lee talks about 'the ones who ran away', but in a sense all of the humans remaining alive could be defined that way. Even Sam and his rescued rebels--they left others behind them, even if it was only the women in the farms. There are always people left behind, and people lost in the struggle to survive. So many people! Each and every member of the fleet carries an emotional burden--the guilt of being the ones that survived, the ones that got away. And that underlying truth is worth remembering at a moment such as this.

Finally, I love Lee for pointing out the pointlessness of throwing Gaius out an airlock. Yes, it's completely understandable to have that emotional urge, but it should not be acted on. I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstances, so of course I'm fully on board with this anyway. But it's doubly important here, I believe: this is about survival. Every single human is (extra) valuable under these circumstances. And as Lee points out, it won't actually change anything, it won't work. There will be momentary emotional release and then ... meaninglessness. The old issues will come back, more conflict will arise, more scapegoats will be found... it's a cycle that should not be perpetuated.

Roslin herself came to that conclusion at a community-wide level. She can't let go of her revulsion for Gaius here. I was sorry for that. During Lee's speech, I thought momentarily that she was being swayed, but we see afterwards that she's just angry and disbelieving. She wanted Gaius found guilty so badly. And, again, this is human and understandable, but making a rule for some people and not others is very undemocratic, and if anyone could be expected to call her on that, it's Lee. I hope in time she'll see the fairness of that.

Lee's testimony was extremely unconventional--no argument on that. I loved that he closed with 'not to me. Not to me', emphasising that this is just his opinion. One man's opinion. What weight does that have?

Well the answer appears to be: a lot. And as always on BSG, there are muddled reasons for this. Lee's testimony undoubtedly swayed a lot of people (and personally I believe everyone should have been swayed by it!). But the personal element cannot be discounted--he appealed to his father, looking at him directly, and we learn that Adama voted Gaius not guilty. Do we think Adama is an objective judge? I don't. Adama is swayed by 'his family'. I don't believe he votes out of loyalty to Lee (after all, they just had a huge fight), but I do think that seeing his son bear his soul on the witness stand (including calling himself a coward!), and hearing his words influenced him very strongly. And I believe the words had more weight because they were from Lee.

It's not fair. It's not right. The system is flawed, but it's all they've got. This is what the judge reiterates when she says that the flaws are what separates them from the Cylons and might make them worth saving.

Gaius
Once upon a time, I hated Gaius Baltar with a fiery passion. I threw things at the screen every time he came on screen. I berated him verbally. I bemoaned his horrible egotism, his blindness to his faults. And in this episode all his worst qualities were pouring out of him again--ingratitude, discourtesy, self-centredness, you name it. I mention this because I think it's worth noting that I am not a Gaius 'sympathiser'. For my position on his 'guilt', please refer to Mr Lee Adama's testimony. :-) So I can understand both the passionate revulsion that the characters feel for Gaius and the reasons why he should be acquitted. (And ultimately, I do not think it would have served the show well to execute him: whereas Lee's passionate defence did serve the greater purpose of the show.)

There is of course a difference for us as audience members: we've been given access to Gaius's internal world, to the ways he justifies to himself what he does and who he is. This means we know just how incredibly self-deluded he is. I don't think he'll ever change, I don't think he'll become a better person, I think he'll bounce from one opportunity to another, cunningly protecting the interests of Gaius Baltar and Gaius Baltar alone. I loved seeing the fight break out after the trial result (not just because Lee got to throw a cathartic punch at someone, although hooray for that too!), both because I thought it was a realistic response and because it showed just how difficult being acquitted will be for Gaius. Of course, the twist came with him being kidnapped by the religious nutters who think he's their saviour. I'd be grrr about that if I didn't think that it was funniest idea ever. Gaius will hate that, and then he'll work out how it can benefit him, and then he'll have minions and much hideous hilarity will ensue.

Because Gaius is incredibly funny, and his withering sarcasm and complete lack of gratitude or courtesy in this episode was... staggering, as always.

The wake of the trial
The shots of Lee and Roslin staring at one another across the courtroom floor were heartwrenching. It felt like a slap in the face when Laura turned away, even though I do understand why. She was so invested in the trial, in one specific outcome of the trial. The other reminder of where Lee is left after the trial was in him having to call 'Admiral!' to appeal to his father for help getting Gaius out of the courtroom. He's alone, struggling in the crowd.

I spluttered my coffee when Gaius says he wouldn't have minded seeing the Admiral squirm just a little bit more. Hee! Last week I would have agreed with him! And I love that Lee cracks it with Gaius at that point. Now that the trial is over he doesn't have to be so courteous to the ungrateful client. :-)

I also loved Lee's last exchange with Romo, even including the melodramatic gestures (glasses ON, cane OFF!). The simplicity of that exchange ('Did you know what was going to happen?' 'I knew you were an honest man') belies its beauty and significance. Romo trusted in Lee. He assessed him accurately and he played his virtues to best advantage. He knew that if pushed, Lee's integrity would show: it was a great coda to Lee's fight with Adama.

Adama says that 'not guilty is not the same as innocent'. True. But for Laura, this distinction is lost. Despite herself, she'd counted on Adama trying to persuade the other judges. Adama was elected by chance, and Roslin set out determined to have a 'fair' trial, but despite that she got caught up in wanting a certain outcome. It's a good reminder that there are two aspects to her--the personal (where she despises Gaius) and the political (where she sees that he should have a fair trial). Her personal feelings overwhelm her at this time.

Yes, I bitched about Bill last week. But I loved his words here. 'No one is asking anyone to forget or forgive.' True! And again, I come back to the fact that Roslin pardonned all the other collaborators. He reminds her that they need to look to the future--something she herself has been so good at doing in other situations. The reversal was very successful.

Roslin's vision
VERY cool that she and the Cylons were projecting together. And having to deal with the incredible freakiness of this gives Laura an 'out' as far as I'm concerned for being unreasonable about the outcome of the trial. She's under a lot of pressure too, that's for sure! What does it mean? No idea. But it was interesting that Gaius appeared there for a moment as well--none of them mentioned that. I loved that Laura's move was to meet with the two Cylons unprotected. For a woman who didn't want to get out of bed that morning, she's pretty fearless! I'm also very intrigued about what the vision/projection means for Caprica Six.

The music
As a device, I was initially a bit 'meh' about the music, especially last episode, where it was just there as teaser. However I think it was used powerfully in this episode to create suspense, and then there was the moment where I burst out laughing realising which song it was. And they said one line each--heeeeee! For a moment it nearly tipped over into pure farce for me, but the episode righted itself again almost instantaneously. I do have one question though (no, it's not 'who's the Dylan fan?'): why the Indian feel? *cocks head on side* Curiouser and curiouser... can't wait for the explanation on the music! *boggles*

So Tigh, Anders, Galen and Tory: four of the final five Cylons. The scene between all four of them was fantastic. I thought it was very exciting to see them explore the fears the characters have about being sleeper agents. This is the ultimate nightmare scenario of a 'switch going off', and here they are. There's disbelief (Sam again being used by the writers to reflect the audience's own emotional reaction), there's the silent acknowledgment in the fact that they're all drawn to the same place and can hear the same thing.

I really liked that Galen stated their fear outright. He's not as in denial as the others, maybe because he's considered the possibility for longer?

As I said above, I think revealing Tigh as a Cylon is very cool. He's fought so long against them, he killed his own wife, he's suffered so much: it's going to be very cool to see how he plays things from here. I was not at all surprised to see him be the most certain that returning to their posts and continuing as usual was the right thing to do. He's so hardened, stuck in his patterns, it will be very interesting to see how the Cylons or his own 'nature' fights that. And of course this has huge ramifications for his friendship with Adama. I really really want Bill to work out that Tigh's a Cylon. That 'I've never doubted it' line made me wonder if he maybe he already did... because he's always been incredibly astute about the Cylons, and he did have Tigh in his office earlier rambling crazily about Cylon music. Again, there's lots for me to love here. I've bitched and moaned about the way that Adama privileges Tigh, but having there be real tension introduced in that relationship, putting it under so fundamental a test is potentially very powerful drama indeed.

And although I think he's pretty despicable, I admire Tigh for being clear about the man he wants to be, and saying 'if I die today, that's the man I'll be'. That's the only way any of them can live, Cylon or not.

I'm curious about the choice to have Sam getting it on with Tory. I could understand him becoming a pilot after Kara's death (though I wasn't all that rapt about it), but having him 'move on' so fast seems like a big leap. Are to we assume here that it's just a casual sex thing? (Kara dies and Sam becomes her?) I get that he may be desperate for some human connection. But what happened to griefstricken my-girl-will-come-back Sam? I think the real reason I'm a bit puzzled by it is because it comes together with the Cylon trigger music. Are we supposed to believe they were drawn together in some subliminal way? If so, what purpose does that achieve? And if Kara's a Cylon too, that implies that they were instinctively drawn to one another too, which is kinda boring and pointless, imo.

Love the set up for next season so! At least four extra known Cylons! And I love the shared secret they have--the looks exchanged between them in the final minutes were both creepy and moving.

The final Cylon
Who is it? Kara? She just resurrected herself--she's my number one suspect (and most dreaded Cylon reveal). Laura? She's been projecting herself with Cylons and she had the freaky physical reaction right before the ships lost power. Gaius? Say what you will about him, he's still linked heavily to Caprica Six at the very least. Or someone else entirely and they're just throwing out red-herrings? Though it could be cleared up in a matter of seconds in the season opener... gah! It does my head in! Just let it not be Kara, please, please, please. I'll handwave miraculous survival, I don't CARE, just DO NOT BE A CYLON, KARA!

Pilots!
The final moments of the episode were pure squeeful joy for me. The adrenalin kick of a major attack was kicking in, and of course Lee was back in a Viper in an instant, just as we predicted. YAY! Loved his little smile as he undid his tie and dashed to get his gear. Loved his determined signalling for launch. Helo, who do you think is in Viper 3?! *giggle*

The second that Lee got the little beep on his screen, I knew, I knew it was Kara. Ok, most obvious thing ever, I know: but it still made me joyful! Kara messin' about and swooping Lee's Viper made me giggle with joy. Oh, yeah, that's Kara! And Lee's double-take on seeing her was priceless. I also love that he blinked and shook his head after 'it's going to be ok'. Hee! Of course that was just shock still, but it allowed me to fanwank that he was weirded out by her saying something so reassuring and calm. *giggle*

SO HAPPY that Kara's destiny is to lead them to Earth (not to die) and that Lee was a crucial link in this. I'm sure I'll have way more to say about that in the NINE MONTHS (*groan*) until Season 4, but for now I'm just going to bliss out on that final shot of the two vipers with the massive jump-zoom-out and swirly space sequence panning to Earth, because that ROCKED!

Oh, and I know everyone's going to be picking Dylan lyrics apart for months (good god, Ron! What have you done?) so I'm not even going into that yet, but please tell me I'm not alone in having thought 'two riders' = Lee and Kara in those vipers. Because the song ends on the riders, and so does this episode! *brain explodes with meta-y glee* (ETA: I know they don't actually sing that lyric on the show, but I'm sure they wanted us to think about the rest of the lyrics too, right?)

Eep, ok, it's after midnight! I must shut the hell up! Tomorrow, I will be up to read other posts, though I'm so gleeful about the show right now I don't know if I want to read too much negativity.

ETA: I really should put a warning on this post about the length. *headdesk*
 
 
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
Current Music: no prizes for guessing
 
 
 
blowjobs for jesus: bsg Apollokristiinthedark on March 26th, 2007 02:33 pm (UTC)
I'm on a break, so I don't have time to read all of this but I just wanted to go,

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because, OMG, so AWESOME! And I have never loved Lee so much as when he did that speech! Best speech EVER!

More later!
blowjobs for jesus: bsg starbuck is smokin'!kristiinthedark on March 26th, 2007 02:33 pm (UTC)
And KARA, YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 26th, 2007 02:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - exsequar on March 27th, 2007 05:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kristiinthedark on March 27th, 2007 09:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 26th, 2007 02:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Bamber hotnessbop_radar on March 26th, 2007 10:28 pm (UTC)
YES YES YES!
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee boxing hugbop_radar on March 26th, 2007 10:33 pm (UTC)
Wheeee!!! It was so awesome!

Kara was preternaturally zen, yes. Is she just a vision? Is she a Cylon trick? Lots of terrible possibilities to consider, but for now I'm just grateful she's there at all.

Why do you think Lee is the fifth? O.O
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 28th, 2007 01:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
daybreak777: Kara prayingdaybreak777 on March 26th, 2007 04:27 pm (UTC)
She’s back Boppy! She’s back! I told you they would fix it! I was also waiting for you to see it before squeeing all over your journal as usual. I loved reading your Lee-glee. You were so coherent which I can’t manage right now cause, she’s back!

I honestly don’t care how she’s back, either. No, I don’t want her to be a Cylon but I also have this funny feeling that the writers don’t know anything yet, either. They haven’t decided. And that makes me strangely happy. Kara’s future is still yet to be determined.

But pilots! Yay! I’m so very relieved. You’re right, we shippers got what we wanted this episode. I agree with you on so many points, the music, Tory and Sam. Can I just say I love Tory? There, said it. Though she looked the worse for wear out of all of the Cylons. The thing is, those four are so loyal to the Fleet. I didn’t like her sexing Sam either. But I think they were both a little crazy from the music, trying to ‘awaken’ or something. I can’t blame Sam (not after he was hurting so much after losing our girl). When Kara was losing it and seeing mandalas everywhere, I don’t like to think of what might have happened if Leoben had been on board that ship. Besides, fidelity was never really their thing even when he thought she was alive.

But Lee! Lee! Lee. Lee. Lee. I loved your long post. Thank you so much for helping me understand Lee this season. When he said his speech it was like the writers had read all of our comments! (That’s a weird thought.) Lee has finally found it, himself. And I think that Adama listened because he finally heard Lee. Lee is right. They need to improvise. They need to bend the rules. Ha, Adama always realized this about himself and Kara. Good for him for finally getting it right and realizing a bit of who Lee is. Sorry he broke up with Laura again. (Specially after phonecuddles, who knew yelling was her thing? ; )

I’m rambling cause I’m happy. So glad you watched it. They’re back, Boppy, they’re all back.
daybreak777daybreak777 on March 26th, 2007 04:31 pm (UTC)
Oh, and one more thing. I could write more coherently about Lee if I wasn’t so distracted by his clothing. At one point he was talking in the White Shirt of Hotness and the material was stretched so tightly over his bicep that I marveled over how he didn’t just break the shirt apart when he put it on and now I have rewind that scene to see what he was talking about.

Oh, and you mentioned another favorite Lee moment! When he stepped to Baltar about that crack about his father. Don’t you criticize Adama, you little wretch. That’s Lee’s job. I loved that moment. Lee can get angry in a second! And there’s something so scary and hot about it. Oh Lee. I can’t wait to see pilots together again.

Boppy, don’t worry about Kara. She’ll be okay. Be happy about Lee. He can not hear the music. Music all through the show and Lee couldn’t hear a note of it. Unless of course, they change the rules again. But I don’t think so after that speech. He’s so human. He’s so wonderfully human!
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 26th, 2007 10:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 26th, 2007 10:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - daybreak777 on March 27th, 2007 08:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 27th, 2007 08:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bloodygoodgirl on March 26th, 2007 05:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Pilots: co-pathetic foreverbop_radar on March 26th, 2007 10:52 pm (UTC)
What if one of them goes crazy, or reveals themselves? And interesting how all of the men were resistance fighters on New Caprica.
Oh, true! God, I hadn't even got to that yet... But yes, I think the dramatic potential of a shared secret is fantastic. Love that!

The getting ready for battle sequence was brilliant! The blip! Kara Kara Kara!! JOY!
fruitsome: l_sam leegrapefruitzzz on March 27th, 2007 01:57 am (UTC)
whee! meta! earth! bob! .
...hem.

So glad Gaeta got on the stand and continued his weirdly personal feud with Gaius (the 'Oh Felix!' was hilarious). Lee was right that they are not the same civilisation as before - just as Zarek said ages ago and just (grr) as Dee said. Maybe in such deperate circumstances, it would have been better to suspend elections and have a rigged election or military rule, and hope that democracy and legal process can be salvaged for the good of society some time later. I think Lee's not sure about this either, but he seems to be the only one who realises that it's going on. Everyone else is talking oldlife and living new.

(haha, I'm reading and replying to a defferent section at the same time as this. It's end-of-season bargain maaadness!)

Tyrol confronted the Cylon thing at the end of S2, when he talked to Cavil about it (there's a lead in, come to think of it. I'll have to go back and check out all their interactions with other bots). Also Tyrol knew what poor Boomer went through. They seem terribly ok with it so far, but I suppose they're too busy having a war crisis. Loved the 'sinister' shots of Tory and Tigh's three eyes in the CIC - are they doing anything sabotagey without knowing? Is it suspicious that they all "want to do their duty"? Laura's shared dream with Sharaon is far more suspicious to me. The others seem more brainwashed, but that dream is *really* cylonic. Laura has very little past, either. She must be the Fifth of Five.

(yes, plz not Kara, although I still want her and my Lee to have a special destiny somehow)

Baltar was such a knob at the end. It was good to be reminded of him as a real-life creature and not just a symbol of justice. Now he has crusty minions, who he will either turn into sex-slaves or get tired of within weeks.

The Dylan-analysis will have become unbearable by January :D

K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Pilots: co-pathetic foreverbop_radar on March 27th, 2007 02:05 am (UTC)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! .
So glad Gaeta got on the stand and continued his weirdly personal feud with Gaius (the 'Oh Felix!' was hilarious).
I know! Them too make me giggle so much. I luff them.

I think Lee's not sure about this either, but he seems to be the only one who realises that it's going on. Everyone else is talking oldlife and living new.
Ha! Yes! I agree, and I completely understand Lee's uncertainty because we're uncertain too, but living in denial is not useful no matter how complex the truths to be faced are.

there's a lead in, come to think of it. I'll have to go back and check out all their interactions with other bots
I know! I know! Rewatching is going to be waaaay interesting now. Yeah, increasingly I'm thinking Tyrol is also a very cool choice as Cylon.

Laura has very little past, either. She must be the Fifth of Five.
I'm thinking that could be the case. Though it could be that Laura just shares blood with the Cylons--since she was cured by Hera's blood and Hera was projecting also?

yes, plz not Kara, although I still want her and my Lee to have a special destiny somehow
Damn, of course! And hell, she just found Earth! (if we believe her) And of course THEY have special destiny! *twirls you*

Baltar was such a knob at the end. It was good to be reminded of him as a real-life creature and not just a symbol of justice. Now he has crusty minions, who he will either turn into sex-slaves or get tired of within weeks.
My thoughts exactly. And, *lol*, you use 'knob' as an insult too! I do that, though I've always spelt it 'nob', heavens know why!

The Dylan-analysis will have become unbearable by January :D
I KNOW! Eeep! I just... I had that little moment (noted above) of geeking out about it, and then omg, I had to pull myself back from the abyss because that way madness lies, you know? ;-)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! . - grapefruitzzz on March 27th, 2007 02:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! . - bop_radar on March 27th, 2007 03:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! . - grapefruitzzz on March 30th, 2007 04:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! . - bop_radar on March 31st, 2007 12:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! . - grapefruitzzz on April 3rd, 2007 12:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: whee! meta! earth! bob! . - bop_radar on April 3rd, 2007 12:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
CapnZebbie: stalkerkittycapnzebbie on March 27th, 2007 03:58 am (UTC)
Wonderful and insightful, as always!

One thing I loved about Lee's speech was the way he subtley (and unintentionally) set Gaius up as a Christ figure with all his talk of scapegoating. With the new cult-of-Gaius and Roslin's returning visions, I see an out and out religious schism in the future. I hope they go that way with this.

The Cylon reveal ROCKED MIGHTILY!!!! I loved the way they built to even from last week (didn't the music start last week?) and it gradually got louder and louder in such a tension-filled, hallucinatory way. (Someone on the writing staff did acid a few decades ago, I think). Tigh was brilliant--that's it, just brilliant. That last look between him and Tory gave me chills. Perfectly shot, ending with that one eye; I loved it.

Oh, and hey! Do you think Tigh was the one D'Anna apologized to in her last vision?

I'm so glad Kara's back! And what a great reveal on that as well! :)

Also, I want a spin-off--Romo Lampkin, Space Attorney-at-Law. What a cool character! *g*
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara glowybop_radar on March 27th, 2007 06:30 am (UTC)
Thank you! *g*

I see an out and out religious schism in the future. I hope they go that way with this.
That would be coool. I agree it was interesting that there were subtle suggestions of Gaius-as-martyr in Lee's testimony. It's ironic because Lee is the last person who would deliberately buy into that, atheist that he is.

I loved the way they built to even from last week (didn't the music start last week?) and it gradually got louder and louder in such a tension-filled, hallucinatory way. (Someone on the writing staff did acid a few decades ago, I think).
Ah ha! *nods* It did start last week, and I think watching the eps back to back would make it even cooler. I intend to do a 'movie' rewatch of them with popcorn and cheering some time soon. ;-) And I totally agree about the acid trip thing--I was laughing so hard to myself: ok, ok, who's the stoner on the writing staff? (That Dylan song reminds me so much of the part of my teen years spent riding in the back of combi vans and watching my friends get all philosophical when they were stoned. *eyerolls*)

Do you think Tigh was the one D'Anna apologized to in her last vision?
Oh, nice! That would be cool. I think he might be!

Romo was a very cool character--lots of fun. I'm glad he was written in for the full three eps and not just the one they originally intended. Perhaps we'll see him again, who knows?
Kate: Jamie Bambermskatej on March 27th, 2007 06:55 pm (UTC)
I *LOOOOOOVED* LEE. He was my absolute and total hero in this episode. I loved Every. Single. Moment of his speech. He put into perfect words exactly how I felt about the trial (and everything else).

The whole thing was awesome. I have to go out right now but I may come back later to squee madly.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee Mr Adamabop_radar on March 27th, 2007 09:13 pm (UTC)
I am a VERY PROUD Lee Adama fangirl this week. I feel so vindicated! ;-) I was breathless through his speech--I was willing him to keep speaking because every word was GOLD, and yes, exactly what I thought of the trial and what I think about the whole series, and yes, I know it was Ron letting on of the characters finally say what we've all been saying... but it was still SUPER COOL! *twirls you*

And Gaius was a riot, as per always! 'Oh, Felix!' 'What a glorious moment in jurisprudence' (that withering sarcasm!)
Nora Norwich: Kara seriousnorwich36 on March 28th, 2007 07:31 am (UTC)
I am going to be *so* tired at work tomorrow, but having stayed up to watch the ep I had to read your review. And I totally and completely agree with you about the awesomeness of Lee's speech at the trial. It was wonderful, and persuasive (and frankly expressed what I thought about Baltar--though I've always been a lot more sympathetic to Baltar than you) and I, too, was really glad he made the point about Roslin pardoning everyone else and Gaius' death as a sacrifice to mob guilt. Really, it just rocked 100%. And I was *so* relieved he didn't actually have to testify against his father.

I wasn't as bothered about Roslin still being mad at Lee (and now Adama) as you were, because her suspicion of Baltar goes beyond the vengeance thing--it's tied to her visions, which she's having again. And Baltar seemed identified as a threat to the baby by Roslin, Six *and* Athena, so maybe he actually is a threat? At any rate, I think her feelings are very much tied into her visions and her sense that Baltar is a continued threat. And we know what a pragmatist she is; even if she agreed with the gist of Lee's speech (and my guess is, if it was someone else, she might have), I think the possibility that Baltar might again gain power simply because people "followed the rules" rather than cheating terrified her. And really, Lee (and Adama) are placed here in the Gaeta position from the end of last season: doing the honorable thing but (from Roslin's perspective) putting the whole fleet in danger to do so.

And speaking of Gaeta: I read his perjury as a callback to his actions a year ago, too. Back then, he chose the honorable path, and it led to the occupation (since it's quite possible if Roslin had been elected she would have been a *lot* slower to let people colonize, and if the Cylons came the situation of the fleet would have been a lot different); now he knows what Gaius is, and feels guilt about how he helped make that possible, so he's reversing his actions and being dishonorable to take Gaius down. I think he's probably more motivated by personal vengeance than Roslin--Baltar's actions came seconds away from getting him killed by the secret tribunal, after all, and he's *not* having prophetic visions--but I think they're deliberately setting up the parallel to the end of last season.

Complete with a new false hope: earth. I assume it's going to be a false hope, anyway. And currently, my theory is *not* that Kara's a Cylon. I actually think she's a hallucination of some sort (and that the real Kara may or may not be dead, but experienced a similar kind of hallucination herself). I still haven't quite worked out how Lee is going to lead the fleet to false earth based on an illusion, but I'm sure that's in the cards.

I'm actually a little bummed about the reveal of 4 of the final 5, because even though the particular people chosen are very very interesting--especially since Tyrol has his own hybrid Cylon baby now--it seems to foreclose so many possibilities to find out so *many* of them at once. I'm almost hoping it turns out there really are more than 12 models, or something.

Still, though, what a terrific episode! And what a great way to wrap up the season!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee boxing hugbop_radar on March 28th, 2007 08:12 am (UTC)
*hugs you for making it through my tl;dr post*

Eeeee!!! Exciting episode!! *still bounce bounce bouncy*

It was wonderful, and persuasive (and frankly expressed what I thought about Baltar--though I've always been a lot more sympathetic to Baltar than you) and I, too, was really glad he made the point about Roslin pardoning everyone else and Gaius' death as a sacrifice to mob guilt. Really, it just rocked 100%. And I was *so* relieved he didn't actually have to testify against his father.
Yes, yes, yes! I was having heart palpitations when I thought he was going to have to testify against Adama... and you know, I really like Gaius now, which isn't even the point really because the point is the trial was fundamentally wrong and Lee made that point for the WIN. \o/ (As I said to Kate, above, I am a very proud Lee Adama fangirl this week.)

Your comments about Roslin are so interesting and you make a few points I haven't seen anyone else make yet. I didn't attribute her response to Gaius's acquittal to being related to her visions, but now I feel daft for not thinking of that!

Lee (and Adama) are placed here in the Gaeta position from the end of last season: doing the honorable thing but (from Roslin's perspective) putting the whole fleet in danger to do so.
That's a really good point--from Roslin's perspective she really sees Gaius as a serious threat. Actually, it's weird to me that I don't share her view any more. I was once the most adamant omg-Gaius-Baltar-is-going-to-doom-them-all girl!

now he knows what Gaius is, and feels guilt about how he helped make that possible, so he's reversing his actions and being dishonorable to take Gaius down
That's a brilliant point and I love your reading on Gaeta--it makes perfect sense. It's interesting you contrast him to Laura. I don't know... I am persuaded that she genuinely sees Gaius as a threat, but I can't help remembering how personal this is for her too. She hates him, he makes her skin crawl, she wants to hang his portrait in the toilet... all that stuff. I'm not really sure she sees him as a human being any more.

I actually think she's a hallucination of some sort (and that the real Kara may or may not be dead, but experienced a similar kind of hallucination herself). I still haven't quite worked out how Lee is going to lead the fleet to false earth based on an illusion, but I'm sure that's in the cards.
I've toyed with similar ideas since seeing the finale earlier this week! Yes, she could be a hallucination--there was a very hallucinatory quality to that final sequence and the swirly clouds and all seemed so like what Kara went into in Maelstrom. I could deal with that... but actually I have a feeling she's real, not a vision. I don't know why. It's just a gut response thing. Anyway, lots of fun speculating to be done! \o/ I don't expect them to actually get to earth until the end of the whole thing--I'm sure there will be lots more obstacles before then, but the mere idea of Lee playing a role in leading them there makes me hap-hap-happy!

I was initially a bit 'meh' about the 4 revealed Cylons, but the idea's been growing on me since... I don't think it's totally certain that they are Cylons (they could just be being manipulated by the Cylons into thinking they are, maybe?) and in any case it means that the final Cylon is a Really Big Deal and that gives me jitters but is also kind of cool, especially if they string that out next season. Just from airy fairy comments Ron has made, I'd say anything's possible--even that there are more than 12 Cylons, that there are different types, whatever.

Eee!! So glad you watched! I know the feeling of a BSG 'hangover' so well... sympathy tomorrow!
(no subject) - norwich36 on March 28th, 2007 10:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on March 28th, 2007 11:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Valancy: Shipping!BSGvalancy_s on March 30th, 2007 06:23 pm (UTC)
Hi, came via queenofthorns's link. I love this assessment, and especially agree with everything you say about Lee!

Re: Roslin - She wanted Gaius found guilty so badly.

This is true, but I think the reason she's fixated on punishing him after giving everyone else clemency is that she doesn't just blame him for New Caprica, she blames him for the annihilation of most of humanity in the first place. No one else believes her vision of seeing him with Six on Caprica, but she does, and she believes the conclusion she's leaped to from it - that he was a collaborator from the beginning. I do think it's because she hates Baltar personally that she's so convinced of this without proof, but she IS convinced and I think that's why she, of all people, can't stand to see him exonerated.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Pilots: co-pathetic foreverbop_radar on March 31st, 2007 03:33 am (UTC)
Oh, yay! Love your icon.

And *nods* re. your thoughts on Laura. norwich36 made a similar observation above. It's interesting because I do have a lot of sympathy for Laura's conviction that Gaius is a collaborator and for the abhorrence of this (I spent Season 1 in total fury at Gaius for the same reason), but I guess I'm surprised that Laura hasn't acknowledged this to herself or, for example, expressed the reasons for her frustration to Adama. She appears unusually un-selfaware about this.
"I'm Batman. Shhh.": [BSG] Lee- lost it alleleigh on March 30th, 2007 06:37 pm (UTC)
Sorry, to be all butting in, but I came here because queenofthorns linked to this post and I do what she says.

Anyway, I think I can sort of answer this: why the Indian feel? *cocks head on side* Curiouser and curiouser... can't wait for the explanation on the music! *boggles*

According to Bear McCreary it sort of evolved. RDM told him to make the song his own and to make sure it didn't sound like any of the current versions of the song, unEarthly, if you will. Bear McCreary actually has a big huge explanation on his website about the song, why it was used, and how he arrived at the final version we heard in the episode. Hope that helps somewhat.

I agree with pretty much every thing else you said and it's always nice to read people saying nice things about Lee and recognizing how awesome he is.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee's farewellbop_radar on March 31st, 2007 03:35 am (UTC)
You're welcome to butt in! I've read that article now--it was very interesting, wasn't it!

And yay for the Lee!love! There's not enough of it around, I swear. And he was ten times of brilliant this week.
The First Evil: Laura/Lee - Promo Art - Nyusziasta77 on April 1st, 2007 05:34 pm (UTC)
The trial put Lee in under so much pressure, pushing and testing him, seeing if his commitment to his ideals could really endure when it meant first putting Roslin on the stand, then testifying against his father.

Lee has stood up to Adama and Roslin in private and even in front of others when you consider the moment he put the gun to Tigh's head, but this was Lee standing up to the leaders of the fleet, calling them on their crap, in front of the entire fleet. He's laid everything out there and since people know the core of his statements to be fact, the weight of his personal feelings must also be considered. People may be angry with him, but some of those people will be forced to think about their actions and the kind of people they wish to be. It seems he has already had some effect on his father.

Lee's also proven a lot to himself. He's a stronger person now and, hopefully, his relationships (accept for Dee ;) will be stronger as well.

He's good at tactics, and pushing for a mistrial did seem like a good idea, given their position.

Perhaps the show wanted to reinforce what a good tactition Lee is by having him come to the realization they had a basis for a mistrial, but Romo should have being doing that in part 1.

Lee let slip that Adama had said Gaius didn't deserve a trial. Yes, it was sloppy of him if he really wanted to protect his father....Of course Lampkin used that card once it was handed to him, and Lee's naivety and inexperience here is obvious. He doesn't want to testify against his father (yes, he does have personal loyalty!) and his emotional reaction is initially overwhelming: he's pissed off and in denial about what's happening, angry at both Lampkin and himself for getting himself in this position.

I don't think Lee slipped up, but I don't think he considered what the implications might be by telling Romo and Gaius what Adama had said. He was trying to sell his position that asking for a mistrial was the best course of action. How better to do that then inform the attorney and client that one of the judges has stated that Gaius is guilty and doesn't even deserve a trial? But he didn't factor in that to prove his point he would have to repeat that on the stand and call his father's leadership and honesty into question.

Lee sees the hypocrisy in Roslin's pursuit of a trial for Gaius despite pardonning everyone else, and I think it disappoints him profoundly, because he admires her so much.

Agree. And I don't know if Laura saw the hypocrisy in the trial. When she issued the blanket pardon I believe she was honest in stating that she wanted the fleet to begin healing. But I think she also felt she was forgiving people that had sided with the Cylons or simply turned a blind eye because they had no other choice. How many people collaborated to protect their family? Or how many people were like Jammer who had convinced themselved they were saving lives? Those people Laura could forgive. But when they captured Gaius she suddenly saw another way to put it all behind them, make him responsible for the Cylon occupation and all the pain and death that went with it. Unfortunately, in her eagerness to have a fall guy and satisfy her personal need for revenge and healing, she failed to see that, no matter how dispicable he may be, Gaius also had no other choice. Lee was right. If Gaius had refused to surrender, they would have just killed them all.

Sam and Tory I really don't get either. It's not so much that he did move on, but why with her? Why not Seelix or Racetrack? And Tory seemed very uncomfortable with their relationship. If it is the Cylon connection then perhaps they should have made that more clear.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on April 1st, 2007 11:23 pm (UTC)
some of those people will be forced to think about their actions and the kind of people they wish to be. It seems he has already had some effect on his father.
*nods* That was so encouraging to see!

Perhaps the show wanted to reinforce what a good tactition Lee is by having him come to the realization they had a basis for a mistrial, but Romo should have being doing that in part 1.
*nods* I think that was an instance of the show making choices for dramatic purposes rather than realism, but I won't complain too much because it made Lee look good. ;-)

he didn't factor in that to prove his point he would have to repeat that on the stand and call his father's leadership and honesty into question
Yeah, I think that worked quite well to show that Lee's starting to think like a lawyer but doesn't have the experience to think everything all the way through.

I'll be very interested to see how Laura moves on from the trial and it's 'disappointing' result next season.

why with her? Why not Seelix or Racetrack? And Tory seemed very uncomfortable with their relationship. If it is the Cylon connection then perhaps they should have made that more clear.
I agree. I fear that they threw that in to make Tory a bit more interesting and connected to characters other than Roslin, but it felt rushed and bizarre and I think they would have done better to make it the Cylon connection and make that clear.
the kid with the bullet soul: BSG KARAexsequar on April 2nd, 2007 11:14 am (UTC)
Okay, I've had this open in a tab for a while, because, uhm, IT'S LONG! *laughs* But I finally screwed up the determination to read it, and I'm very glad I did. This is a very insightful post! I really enjoyed reading it, it solidified a lot of my own thoughts about the finale.

(Kara dies and Sam becomes her?)

Huh! I hadn't thought about it that way. To be very very honest, I was down with the Sam/Tory casual sex thing because it clears the path for Kara and Lee to make it work once and for all. Since, uh, that's always always one of my biggest driving desires on the show. I'm shallow, I know :)

I honestly don't think Kara's a cylon. I think Katee has said that she is NOT going to be a cylon, she can guarantee that. I also think it would be very cheap. I think that the humans have to have their own kind of cosmic significance, their own grand path to follow, and right now Kara is the most important piece of that. I feel the same about Roslin, to a certain extent. I doubt she's a cylon when she is playing the role of the "dying leader" from the human scriptures, and also with the breast cancer, which would be an odd thing for a cylon to have.

The final song rocked my socks off. I'm not sure where you're hearing the Indian tones (it was more just a rock version, to my ears) but regardless, it's AMAZING. I only knew the Hendrix version before (shame on me, I know) but I really love this one. I have the song file ripped from the audio of the episode and I've listened to it like ten times in the past day. SO GOOD. I get to listen to Kara coming back, yaaaay! OH KARA. ♥♥ And Ron talked about why he used that song - it was about the whole idea that 'all this has happened and will happen again,' and sort of introducing earth into that cycle, implying that we are not so disconnected from these events as we may think, and so on and so forth. I thought it was a really cool idea and I can't wait to see further payoff on it.

Okay, I stop rambling now! In short, yes yes and more yes! Yay Lee! Yay Kara! Yay awesome cylon reveal! YAY SHOW! \o/
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Pilots: co-pathetic foreverbop_radar on April 2nd, 2007 12:50 pm (UTC)
*giggle* Yes, I scared MYSELF with the length of this post! ;-)

I was down with the Sam/Tory casual sex thing because it clears the path for Kara and Lee to make it work once and for all
I like that! That I can work with. *g*

Bear McCreary talks about the way his version of 'All Along the Watchtower' evolved in his blog. The Indian feeling comes from the sitar, tabla and harmonic minor scales. Kind of a cool read if you're enjoying the song! I think the song's a cool idea too, though I can see why it got some fans in a flap. (You can't please everyone!)

And yes, very yay show! I'm still all glowy from the finale. Thanks for reading (and commenting)!
Dionusia: memorial walldionusia on April 5th, 2007 07:17 pm (UTC)
Oh man! I am so glad that you friended me so I found your LJ, but so sorry I didn’t find you sooner! I’ve just felt so much delight reading your meta -- it was NOT too long, no. *hugs post* In fact, this will be a very long comment, so hope you don’t mind that. My own thoughts on the ep are still mostly incoherent burbles, so I appreciate such cogent analysis. I won’t quote every damn thing and gush (even though I want to) but I have to say I particularly love your take on Lee. Brava! I read a lot of reactions to his behavior in CRI that basically said “He’s just doing the trial to get back at his dad, the little twit” and that made me so sad. Then angry. Urgh. I can’t understand how people miss how much his actions cost him, and his true motivations behind them. It hurt so bad to see him cross-examine Roslin, but it hurt just as much to see how doing that was almost breaking him.

It is so Lee to put himself under the microscope like this, and there is naturally a catharsis for him in saying these things publicly. The Olympic Carrier! (Oh, how long he's been carrying that one!) Mutiny (at inappropriate times)! And, oh, Lee, your guilt about jumping away in Pegasus! *heart-thump* OMG, that gutted me!

I’m so glad this ep brought up the Olympic Carrier, too. Lee’s fight with his dad in TSAR over grief and carrying on really made me think of Lee trying to ask his dad how to cope with the aftermath of doing that, and Adama shutting him down. He’s had to carry that weight, the weight of a lot of things--and of course the weight of feeling he must have let Kara down included--for a very long time. Which is why I never get upset at him, ever, for supposedly being “too emotional” and I’m always kind of surprised when other people do. I just want to hug him. And not just to press against his perfect pecs! For purely platonic reasons! Ahem.

And I love that it comes from Lee's mouth, because it has such added weight from someone who believes in and mourns for the civilisation they did have, who fights to retain it, but who in doing so has learnt, to the very core of his being, just how much you do need to break rules and improvise.

Oh, yes. My heart breaks even more when I think about how he’s the one who fought the hardest to retain it, harder even than Roslin. Roslin fell back on the old power structures and ritual of swearing-in to claim and solidify her leadership, but Lee’s the one who had to point out that she was technically only finishing out President Adar’s term. I love it when both Adama and Roslin are furious at him over promising elections and he replies calmly that if you throw out the law, “then I am not a Captain, you're not a Commander, and you are not the President. And I don't owe either of you a damned explanation for anything." Ha!

The tension between civilisation and anarchy, between purpose and meaningless, is ever present, and Lee fights to bring order to his own world despite that. But he's not a starry-eyed romantic--he's very clear-eyed about their condition--and it was refreshing to be reminded of that here. Don't dismiss Lee Adama as a daft idealist: don't be so near-sighted.

No, never! Not daft at all. But he does continue to think of how things could be, even as a pragmatist. They’re all in the gutter, but someone has to keep looking at the stars. Especially someone so conscious of the distance between. Kind of the best of both sides—and he’s always set up for endless dissatisfaction, in a way, but people like that are a necessity.

He’s my clear-eyed idealist Lee and I love him. (happy sigh)

…and great, now I can’t wait for S4 to start up again because I miss the show and I’ll be eagerly awaiting your posts on the new episodes. I will have to content myself with S3 rewatching and working my way through your old posts. :) Thanks for this!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee dreamybop_radar on April 6th, 2007 10:27 am (UTC)
Eee! Thank you for the lovely comment! It made me all glowy and happy. I love long comments, so please don't apologise about the length.

I read a lot of reactions to his behavior in CRI that basically said “He’s just doing the trial to get back at his dad, the little twit” and that made me so sad. Then angry.
Same! I was rather ragey the week before, as so many fans seemed to be finding Lee either incomprehensible or just dismissing him. As you say, I don't understand how so many people miss the subtelties in his character or the personal cost of his actions. It seems it's easier for a lot of people to dismiss him.

Which is why I never get upset at him, ever, for supposedly being “too emotional” and I’m always kind of surprised when other people do. I just want to hug him.
Oh, SAME! I'm so glad to find someone who feels the same way. I know a lot of people hated Lee's depression in season 2, but again I thought it so convincingly in character and easy to 'forgive' (if there WAS anything to forgive!) because of all that he's been through--to keep on fighting when the fight is proving more and more meaningless is incredibly hard. But we've also seen Lee grow beyond that. He's found his way forward despite losing faith (at different times) in Roslin, his father, Kara and himself. In my eyes, he's achieved so much, fighting to become a better, stronger person, so I do feel, er, yes, a little bit sensitive when people eyeroll about Lee being 'emo' or 'whiny'.

he does continue to think of how things could be, even as a pragmatist. They’re all in the gutter, but someone has to keep looking at the stars. Especially someone so conscious of the distance between. Kind of the best of both sides—and he’s always set up for endless dissatisfaction, in a way, but people like that are a necessity.
YES! That's it exactly. You're right that there is little personal satisfaction in this for Lee, but the fleet needs people like Lee Adama. Their survival in any meaningful sense depends on people like him who can face the hard truths, who can remember their 'crimes' and strive to move forward constructively anyway. The perfect example is Lee arguing for leaving the New Capricans behind, but then coming back and sacrificing the Pegasus. The pragmatist in him warred with the idealist, his head warred with his heart, and in the end he found a way for both to win out by taking an enormous personal risk.

Anyway, I could waffle about Lee and how he's undervalued all day. ;-) So glad to find another Lee fan! I'll be rewatching episodes during hiatus myself, so please feel free to come and squee/chat/share thoughts any time. :-)
(no subject) - dionusia on April 7th, 2007 01:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on April 7th, 2007 01:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dionusia on April 7th, 2007 10:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on April 8th, 2007 04:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dionusia on April 9th, 2007 10:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on April 10th, 2007 01:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Angel Dust: geeksquad by gilcurtisglammetalkitten on August 18th, 2008 02:42 pm (UTC)
Hi! I wandered over here from mskatej's journal and have been reveling in all your lovely BSG meta! I'm a very new convert and it's great to go through all your nicely tagged entries as I watch the episodes ;)

Fabulous stuff!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Roslin Kara yaybop_radar on August 19th, 2008 06:30 am (UTC)
Ohh, yay! Lovely to meet you and glad you enjoy my meta. I got rather down about BSG in Season 4 but it still ranks as one of my all-time favourite shows and I'm glad it's still attracting new converts.