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04 May 2008 @ 02:31 pm
Battlestar Galactica 4.05 The Road Less Travelled  
Same disclaimer applies as for my Smallville review, except with bonus fever! :D

I guess he was my Lee substitute in this episode. ;) Because seriously he was the best thing about it. He's so adorably snarky and level-headed! He's the only one of the mutineers who wasn't emotional about it. He didn't pick fights and he didn't scream or yell or woobie (sorry, Helo, but you did woobie a bit there at the end). He just firmly disagreed. With a streak of bitchy. *swoons* Putting Gaeta on that ship was the best thing they did! Without him there I think I'd find it quite tedious--he balances everyone else out quite well. :)

Ok, ok, I'll get over my crush and talk about the rest of the episode.

There was a bit too much Galen for my liking, so I'll get that part over with first. Since what we saw here was largely an extension of what we'd already seen in the previous episode, I found it unnecessarily drawn out. No doubt I'm biased because Tyrol's never been a character I've found particularly interesting, but I really wasn't in a lot of suspense about whether he would or wouldn't take Baltar's hand.

I do, however, think it's cool that Galen was working out that something didn't ping right about Cally's suicide. (Though the anti-depressants in this universe are somemwhat malleable--one week they make you delusional when you're fatigued, the next they prevent suicide? o.O) Tory is so Machiavellian. It was clever of her to confront Galen where she did (who would think that a murderer would do that?); it was clever of her to feed him the idea that Cally found out the truth (it explains some of the abnormalities--perhaps enough to get him off her back). Babbling about God and a Plan was a bit suspicious though. You'd think Galen would at least briefly remember that it's the CYLONS who worship one God. Agh!

That's ok: they're showing that the Cylons will eventually be drawn to Baltar (yay Tigh for resisting!), so I'll run with it. And how creepy is it that the Cybrid likes Gaius's speech? *shudders* I know lots of people find that kid cute but he's always really freaked me out and now that he's revealed as half-Cylon even more so.

Last episode we saw Baltar heavily influenced by the words that Tory said to him. In this episode she emphasises that no-one of significance has turned to Baltar and in the same episode we see him make a public appeal to Tyrol. Coincidence? I think probably not, though it's interesting that they chose not to have Six driving him in any way there. I guess they didn't need to because Baltar's own ego is enough to motivate him to try and sway someone who held such a key role in the fleet. But Galen's not in that role any more, so there's another question to be asked: was he drawn to call on Tyrol publicly because subliminally he's conscious of him as a Cylon? It seems very deliberate that first Tory and now Galen are connecting with him. In part it's because they came to him, but he's also responded to them very deliberately. I found that intriguing.

As for the Demetrius plot, I found it far more effective than the previous episode that featured the Demetrius. Rather than showing Kara only through the eyes of the crew this time, they also gave us access to her fears and insecurities, so I thought the whole set-up was a lot more well rounded. In particular I found Helo's position compelling. Helo is a good friend to Kara and a very good 2IC. He stays loyal to her as long as he can, for both personal and professional reasons. But it was obvious from early in the episode that he had grave concerns about her--again both professionally and personally.

It's easy to understand Helo's position: Kara appears totally out of control. She's rambling, she's not listening to other people, she admits she's terribly sleep deprived but insists on flying, and then she not only takes in a Cylon but decides to accept his offer of an alliance in order to find Earth. In addition he's got Sharon reminding him that Kara's probably afraid of facing Adama. She knows Kara, and Helo would know too that that's probably very likely to be the truth.

Of course, as the audience we're in the privileged position to see that that's not the only thing driving Kara not to make the rendez-vous. And personally I'm totally invested in her mission to find Earth. I believe that she's got a true destiny to do so. This destiny relies on instinct and intuition--which is a very internal process and one which it's going to be very hard to sell to others while things are going wrong. Kara's not the best leader in the world and she knows it (*nods to supacat for reminding me of that), but even with a good leader, it would be hard to convince the crew to rely solely on one person's flashes of insight under such conditions. Poor Kara: I really felt sorry for her.

I felt sorry for her, but I totally understand why the crew mutinied. I just wish more of them were doing so from a Gaeta-like (or even Helo-like) position and not from the stupid 'waah, our friend is dead and it's all your fault!' emotionalism. Because actually I think Kara's speech about Matthias's death was very moving and true: people die in war for no reason at all and because of stupid accidents and there is absolutely no sense to it. It's painful and horrible and she has to face that. I loved that this speech showed another instance of Kara facing truths more than she ever has in the past. It was hard for her to stand up and say that, but she did so anyway

(Momentary aside: I loved that Gaeta read this moment--wrongly--as the moment when she could be swayed emotionally. No, Gaeta: nice try, but the fact that she's facing the truth about her own culpability for M's death has nothing to do with her determination to keep on the path to finding Earth. Or if it does, it only makes her stronger.)

The role of Leoben in this was interesting. I have the usual mixed feelings that his character always inspires in me. It was fascinating to have him see the new Kara and be so insistent that she has changed. Given that he played some kind of role (at least symbolically in her dreamscape) in her Maelstrom journey, and given that he's always seen something 'special' about her, it's convincing that she would appear changed to him. He plays the role of a truthsayer or visionary in that respect. Kara herself rails against it, insisting she's just the same. But actually his words echo what we heard Kara herself say to Anders: that nothing feels the same any more, that she's changed.

I'm inclined to feel that Leoben's words on this score are true. Regardless of how I feel about Leoben kidnapping Kara on New Caprica, he has some kind of insight into Kara-as-destinyfigure, and I do think what we're seeing is a Kara who is 'purged of questions and doubt'. She's faced reality about key figures in her life (Adama, Anders, Lee) since she got back in a way we haven't quite ever seen her do before. But she's still falling back on old coping mechanisms--as Leoben is quick to point out--but they feel empty. We saw her find the sex with Sam empty, and now she doesn't seem to get the satisfaction she once would have from beating the crap out of Leoben. So Kara, it would seem, has changed. That makes her a lot more open and vulnerable as well as (at least potentially) more at peace with herself.

What worried me a bit was him saying that 'God has taken her hand'. Is that just Leoben's way of explaining to himself the change? Or is there an ACTUAL GOD who was instrumental in Kara's journey. If it turns out that there is, and that it's either Baltar's God or the Cylons' God or both, I'm going to be seriously pissed off. ;) So let me fanwank that for now as Leoben just explaining it in his own religious terms.

There were two things which puzzled me about this episode but I'm not sure if it's just the fever muddling my head. One was why no-one made a bigger deal out of the fact that Leoben was clearly only coming to Kara because his own survival was at stake. I would have thought that would have been a good logical argument to put to her. But I guess Kara's more likely to react to the emotional context--the only time she shows doubt in Leoben is after M's death.

The other thing that bothered me was why were people not more disturbed that the Cylons knew about Earth and how to get there? what the hell is the point of going to Earth if the Cylons will be there too? *perplexed* I'm doubly perplexed on Kara's count. I can understand her resorting to an alliance with the Cylons in order to find out the information about getting to Earth, because I do buy that she is just that desperate, and Leoben's always been a weak point for her, but I kind of wanted more of a sign that she felt confident they could ditch the Cylons at some later stage. Because the idea of repopulating Earth together? Not that appealing!

On the other hand, I wonder if that's where the show is going and they're just expecting us to run with that. Because they definitely seemed to be building this encounter in as part of Kara's 'journey of intuition'. She says she 'knew he was out there' and something led her to get in the Viper that day, rather than any other. Because I'm personally invested in her finding Earth, I tend to believe that if they HAD followed Kara's orders they would have got there. But would they also, perhaps, have been leading humankind to the destruction as the prophecy in Razor suggested? Possibly.

The other interesting scene was the Leoben-Sam scene. I don't quite think Leoben recognised Anders as one of the Final Four, but it came close, with him saying Anders and Kara are destined to be enemies. That's an interesting piece of (potential) foreshadowing but I get the feeling Anders is going to fight that idea for as long as possible. Will he and Kara tear off together to unite with the Cylons? Please no! ETA: Apparently I completely misheard this part! Leoben speaks of Anders having a destiny, waiting for a 'singular moment of clarity', but I haven't actually ever got this sense from Anders. We've seen Tory react to her discovery that she's a Cylon that way: she's embraced it as the biggest Truth in her life. But Sam is very conflicted, he appears to be quite lost still, so I'm wondering if (if we believe Leoben can see the truth about people), there's some future 'moment of clarity'/destiny for him, beyond the Cylon reveal.

Sam's 'Ok, everyone needs to think about what they're doing here' line had me totally *rotfl*. I had to pause to recover. That has to be the stupidest thing ever invented to say mid-mutiny. You don't mutiny on a whim. Hee! And it's not as if he hasn't heard them doing that thinking aloud for the last 50 days. It was kind of adorable because it was so well-intentioned and yet at the same time so completely ineffectual. And I'm so glad Kara reacted as she did. You could see her inner self rolling her eyes and saying 'er, hon, not helping: they HAVE'.

Drama-wise, I thought the Demetrius plot was really interesting, but I came out of it feeling really sad on two counts:
1. For Helo and the Kara-Helo friendship, which I love and which I hate to see destroyed. I think it totally destroyed Helo to do this, on several levels, and that look of hatred in Kara's eyes at the end really stung.
2. For Kara, because she is so very very alone still. And she's going to lose the path to Earth all over again. :(
 
 
Current Location: sofa of comfiness
Current Mood: bitchybitchy
 
 
 
darenothopedarenothope on May 4th, 2008 06:15 am (UTC)
LJ cut!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: as snapped by moibop_radar on May 4th, 2008 06:18 am (UTC)
Thanks! And sorry! I think I was fixing it as you commented. Damn colds: I forgot the hyphen. :(
(no subject) - darenothope on May 4th, 2008 06:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 4th, 2008 07:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Karabop_radar on May 4th, 2008 07:37 am (UTC)
I think I found Leoben less interesting in this episode than usual because he just came across as desperate and didn't really say anything we didn't already know. But still--CKR's a very strong actor and I liked the performance he gave in this.
(Deleted comment)
daybreak777: gaeta is awesomedaybreak777 on May 4th, 2008 08:02 am (UTC)
YAY GAETA LOVE!!!

Ahem. Just had to say that. I knew he'd be awesome two weeks ago. How has he gone so unappreciated? They freaking better not kill him! You read my pirate!fic, right? Love mutinies!

I know lots of people find that kid cute but he's always really freaked me out and now that he's revealed as half-Cylon even more so.
You are scared by chubby Tyrol Cybrid? What about Hera? I think Nicky is so well-fed and adorable. But heck, who knows? He is the shape of things to come. Whatever that means now.

And personally I'm totally invested in her mission to find Earth.
Really? And I'm still dubious. I'm starting to even doubt what she saw was Earth. I know she believes it and I believe in her. But I wonder if she was tricked. How interesting you and I are this season, Bop. And me having discovered some Lee love! Thought we'd be more on the same page, but your thoughts are as different and interesting as ever.

Poor Kara: I really felt sorry for her.
You felt for Kara! Wow. You totally like this new!Kara. I'm still a bit in mourning for Starbuck but getting over it. (D told me I couldn't have her alive and not changed, which was totally on point. And I wanted her alive no matter what so I have to deal right now.)

It was hard for her to stand up and say that, but she did so anyway
Aww. My poor girl. She was trying.

I loved when Gaeta tried to help her. He knew she was in a vulnerable moment and he just wanted to go home, but he did jump in when she was floundering. His voice was so soft . . . gentle . . . oh, I have to rewatch!

That makes her a lot more open and vulnerable as well as (at least potentially) more at peace with herself.
I see the open and vulnerable but not the peace. Not even potential peace. I want to see the peace! I'm looking very hard!

why no-one made a bigger deal out of the fact that Leoben was clearly only coming to Kara because his own survival was at stake.
No one cared about Cylon civil war or L's motives. He was a Cylon and shouldn't have been there. They were unhappy enough before. They wanted him off the ship.

why were people not more disturbed that the Cylons knew about Earth and how to get there
Those people on the Demetrius. Didn't seem to care about Earth. I don't know if NC jaded them or what. I don't think they believe Kara or Leoben or even Adama. I don't think they believe anymore that they are really going anywhere. It's kind of sad.

I wonder if that's where the show is going and they're just expecting us to run with that.
I think they are. I don't like it as I said in my review. No uniting. Or at least they want us to think this is where they are going. BSG PTB are so wiley that I can't tell.

That has to be the stupidest thing ever invented to say mid-mutiny
Hee! Mid-mutiny. Helo and Sam were so unprepared for that mutiny. Kara too. I don't get it. Helo knew they were talking about it. How could they not predict this? It was so weird. Because Sam, Kara and Helo at their best could have so squelched that mutiny in the bud.

For Kara, because she is so very very alone still. And she's going to lose the path to Earth all over again. :(
Helo and Kara will be all right. Because he loves her. She knows he had no choice. As for Kara, are you so sure that is Earth? Me, I believe she went through something. Something profound. But maybe they are playing with her. Who? The Cylons? God? I don't know!

And acetaminophen and echinacea, Bop! Cover both bases!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee not a herobop_radar on May 4th, 2008 09:41 am (UTC)
You are scared by chubby Tyrol Cybrid? What about Hera?
Hera is cute. Nicky is freaky. I don't know why.

Really? And I'm still dubious. I'm starting to even doubt what she saw was Earth. I know she believes it and I believe in her
So is supacat, which is interesting--two Kara girls less and less sure she can find Earth. While I remain convinced but can't honestly tell you why.

Thought we'd be more on the same page, but your thoughts are as different and interesting as ever.
Hee! Yeah I kind of thought we'd be more on the same page too. But apparently no. It's intriguing!

You totally like this new!Kara.
Yeah, I do. I feel more connected to her somehow. Though she still baffles me sometimes. ;) That's how I know she's still Kara. *g*

Not even potential peace. I want to see the peace! I'm looking very hard!
Well to be fair I don't think Kara herself sees it yet. She feels changed but I'm not sure she really sees the 'peace' potential because she's caught up in this struggle about finding Earth.

No one cared about Cylon civil war or L's motives. He was a Cylon and shouldn't have been there. They were unhappy enough before. They wanted him off the ship.
That is VERY SILLY and SHORTSIGHTED of them, DB! ;) Dumb humans!

I don't think they believe anymore that they are really going anywhere. It's kind of sad.
That's an interesting reading. I do think overall all the humans seem really beaten down and fatalistic these days. But I thought their lack of faith in this ep was mostly to do with Kara--I hadn't broadened it to Earth more generally.

Helo and Sam were so unprepared for that mutiny.
I read Helo as being prepared for it, just really sad about it and resisting it heavily because his own role was so critical. Sam *did* seem unprepared but it's telling that they kept him out of the planning process--presumably because of his relationship with Kara. All three of them are isolated from each other--they don't work in unison, you're right,

I have no idea why I really believe it was Earth. I think because I just want it to be. ;) And I really believe Kara's own sincerity on the matter.

acetaminophen
what is this? I don't think I have this.
(no subject) - asta77 on May 4th, 2008 04:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 4th, 2008 11:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - daybreak777 on May 4th, 2008 07:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 4th, 2008 11:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - daybreak777 on May 5th, 2008 12:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 5th, 2008 12:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
patron saint of neglected female characters: poetrose_griffes on May 4th, 2008 11:51 am (UTC)
I don't quite think Leoben recognised Anders as one of the Final Four, but it came close, with him saying Anders and Kara are destined to be enemies.

I heard "weren't meant to be enemies." And some people with closed captioning available agreed. (I buy the epis through Amazon, and I don't think they have that available.)

Interesting thoughts. I'm still trying to get past my ridiculous level of Leoben fangirl reaction so as to decide what did, in fact, happen. *g*
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara glowybop_radar on May 4th, 2008 10:14 pm (UTC)
Weren't? Well my ears certainly weren't reliable since I have a bad head cold. That's... ominous. Given that Anders is a Cylon. :( On the other hand it kind of makes more sense since I very much doubt that the show will show us Kara and Anders as open enemies.
Nicole Anell: tory pwns younicole_anell on May 4th, 2008 04:54 pm (UTC)
And how creepy is it that the Cybrid likes Gaius's speech?
Thank you! Everyone I mentioned that to didn't notice it. *g*
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara glowybop_radar on May 4th, 2008 10:15 pm (UTC)
How could they miss that!?!
The First Evil: My Brain Hurts - Kara - Nyusziasta77 on May 4th, 2008 04:55 pm (UTC)
Interesting to see how much you got out of the episode since I was very disappointed in it overall.

The other thing that bothered me was why were people not more disturbed that the Cylons knew about Earth and how to get there? what the hell is the point of going to Earth if the Cylons will be there too?

Heh. Good point! I understood their fears of "running on fumes" as Sharon put it, not meeting at the rendezvous point, and being left for dead out in the middle of nowhere. But at least one of them, Gaeta perhaps, should have voiced the concern about they and the Cylons heading in the same direction. Even if they have some Cylons on their side, there are a lot more that want them all dead. So are they heading towards a New Caprica version 2.0?

And there was Sharon's total lack of reaction to hearing her people are involved in a civil war and are now killing each other. It's almost as if the writers were so excited by the prospect of Kara and Leoben back together and a mutiny led by her friend that they forgot to address other questions they were creating.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee frak betide!bop_radar on May 4th, 2008 10:22 pm (UTC)
Bear in mind I was sick and had low expectations. A friend of mine called it 'Boringstar' this week, and given that I'm in a state where I find chip commercials compelling, they could be right...

It did seem, when I think about it, to be the world's most predictable mutiny ever.

at least one of them, Gaeta perhaps, should have voiced the concern about they and the Cylons heading in the same direction
It only needed to be voiced briefly by one person. But to ignore it completely just seemed really sloppy writing.

And there was Sharon's total lack of reaction to hearing her people are involved in a civil war and are now killing each other. It's almost as if the writers were so excited by the prospect of Kara and Leoben back together and a mutiny led by her friend that they forgot to address other questions they were creating.
Yeah, I got that feeling massively. I rather liked Sharon in this--after Gaeta she was the least annoying shipmate. But I thought she might have blinked at hearing all the other Eights had been deaded.
sarmoti: BSG - Agathonssarmoti on May 4th, 2008 06:12 pm (UTC)
I totally agree about Gaeta. I don't know what I'd do without him on that ship!
smact46smact46 on May 5th, 2008 07:03 am (UTC)
Hey there, hope you are feeling better *hugs*.

I am actually one of the people who liked this episode.

I have been seeing each episode thus far as being each a part of the overall season 4 tapestry and I love how the threads are starting to come together. I am totally enthralled with the overall darkness, the mystery, and the wonder at what is yet to unfold now that we are into the final act.

I have to admit your love of Gaeta just made me think about how much I missed Lee in this episode, and while I am personally loving (and remain excited by)his new story, and I understand why he and Kara are separated, I can't help but wonder how things may have been if he were also on the demetrious. But then again, imagine poor Kara having to be on that ship with Lee, Sam and Leoben* boggles*.

I don't know if you have checked out the podcasts yet, but there were some really interesting and promising references to Lee and his storyline, and some references that made me so frustrated as they could have made a big difference to the way that Lee's character has been perceived so far....sigh. Roll on deleted scenes.


K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee not a herobop_radar on May 5th, 2008 07:54 am (UTC)
I'm glad you're into Season 4! I was into it in the first couple of eps, and now I'm feeling it losing me a bit. I'm hoping there will be a powerful ep to draw me back in soon. Some Lee would help!

And yeah, I think I was just missing Lee... ;) And was a little crazy with the cold.

I haven't checked out any podcasts for S4 yet, but it's good to hear they're referring to Lee at least.

some references that made me so frustrated as they could have made a big difference to the way that Lee's character has been perceived so far....sigh
Ah yes. That sounds like a familiar feeling!
latteaddict: Angellatteaddict on May 5th, 2008 11:47 am (UTC)
I felt sorry for her, but I totally understand why the crew mutinied.

yeah. I get why they mutinied too but seeing Kara dive further into alienation is most upsetting. Plus the mutiny just proved more of Leoben's ramblings true. Almost as soon as he got on board he whispered to Kara that her crew doesn't trust her. So I think the mutiny will just drive Kara further in Leoben's lair; that he will stay loyal to her while others won't. But then again, if Leoben's the only one who can help Kara find earth then I guess this step is important.

Good review. I found it interesting!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on May 5th, 2008 12:37 pm (UTC)
Well, yes, Leoben knew they were going to mutiny and he used that knowledge to manipulate Kara. But I was rather figuring he'd get airlocked now they're returning to Galactica so we wouldn't have to worry about him soon anyway (I'm still unspoiled). Your words have me worried. *bites lip* Because it's true if he does stick around, Kara will believe him and no-one else. :((
(no subject) - latteaddict on May 6th, 2008 03:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 6th, 2008 04:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - smact46 on May 6th, 2008 06:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
katiebugs18katiebugs18 on May 5th, 2008 10:39 pm (UTC)
He's so adorably snarky and level-headed!

Oh I totally loved Gaeta this week. The part where he agrees that Sam should go find out what Leobon wants...'yeah you go do that' is so great.

As for the Demetrius plot, I found it far more effective than the previous episode...

This was the only part of the episode that didn't make my head spin with confusion, though I did have plenty of questions.

The role of Leoben in this was interesting...It was fascinating to have him see the new Kara and be so insistent that she has changed. Given that he played some kind of role (at least symbolically in her dreamscape) in her Maelstrom journey, and given that he's always seen something 'special' about her...

It does make a lot of sense but I can't help feeling that Kara was confusing this Leoben, the Leoben who kidnapped her on New Caprica with the Leoben of her dreamscape. She's obviously feeling a bit desperate and his appearance isn't helping matters because instead of helping her (as I'm sure she originally hoped) it only serves to make her more resolutely befuddled. She knows she's suppose to find Earth, that she's capable of finding Earth but things aren't going so well and she's beginning to freak out and at the same time dig in. I'm really curious to see exactly where they're going with this.

Apparently I completely misheard this part!

See, I don't think you did. I agree with what you said about Sam not having his moment of clarity yet but I still got the sense that Leoben might have sensed something about Sam. Though why he could sense something and it's been shown many times that Sharon doesn't sense anything I have no idea. It could be specific to his model. We'll have to see.

And hey, speaking of Sharon, am I the only one that's a bit...befuddled by her character at the moment. It's clear she hasn't sensed the other four but you'd think that when Leoben comes on bored talking about a civil war breaking out between the Cylons or the destruction of resurrection ships the crew would of had her at least talk to him to get a better sense if he was lying or not. I know she committed to being human 100% but this wouldn't be a betrayal since it would be a great help. I'm just asking.

1. For Helo and the Kara-Helo friendship, which I love and which I hate to see destroyed. I think it totally destroyed Helo to do this, on several levels...

I will be devastated if they blow up this friendship. Especially after being over the moon that they were bringing it back to the forefront. I just wanted to give Helo a great big hug at the end and tell him that everything will work out. Please let it work out. Pretty please.

2. For Kara, because she is so very very alone still. And she's going to lose the path to Earth all over again.

All I could think about was that she needed Lee to support her unquestionably and to give her a hug.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Pilots: co-pathetic foreverbop_radar on May 6th, 2008 04:19 am (UTC)
The part where he agrees that Sam should go find out what Leobon wants...'yeah you go do that' is so great
Hahaha, yeah, he was beautiful in that moment! It makes me wish he was in ALL Galactica scenes just how he could snark at everyone. ;)

I can't help feeling that Kara was confusing this Leoben, the Leoben who kidnapped her on New Caprica with the Leoben of her dreamscape
Yeah, that's a really good call. I think that's exactly what was happening with her emotionally and it makes me really worried for her.

Though why he could sense something and it's been shown many times that Sharon doesn't sense anything I have no idea. It could be specific to his model.
I think it's specific to his model. He's supposedly got this 'spirituality'/intuitive aspect. He knew who Kara was when he first met her--I think it's the same thing at play with Anders.

you'd think that when Leoben comes on bored talking about a civil war breaking out between the Cylons or the destruction of resurrection ships the crew would of had her at least talk to him to get a better sense if he was lying or not. I know she committed to being human 100% but this wouldn't be a betrayal since it would be a great help. I'm just asking.
I know. Stacks of people have complained about that and I think it's a case of really sloppy writing. I gather Sharon wasn't always originally going to be on the mission and it feels like they didn't think through the consequences of bringing her along.

I just wanted to give Helo a great big hug at the end and tell him that everything will work out. Please let it work out. Pretty please.
I know! :(( I think I feel pretty flat after this episode because I was looking forward to seeing some cameraderie between those two, some support in a difficult time, and instead they tore apart another relationship. :( It better start getting more positive soon!

All I could think about was that she needed Lee to support her unquestionably and to give her a hug.
Yeah it feels like that last hug has worn off, huh? I'm getting more and more anxious with the two of them being separated and I just hope that somehow they'll meet up soon. Kara needs someone to reality check her at the moment, without undermining her. I don't see who could do that except Lee or possibly Adama. No, Lee. Adama's reality check would be more like a kick in the teeth.
(no subject) - katiebugs18 on May 6th, 2008 03:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 7th, 2008 04:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - katiebugs18 on May 7th, 2008 03:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 8th, 2008 05:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicndetour on May 6th, 2008 11:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 7th, 2008 01:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - katiebugs18 on May 7th, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Allisonfrolicndetour on May 6th, 2008 11:25 pm (UTC)
Aw, you don't like Nicky? ;) The Tyrol/Baltar stuff could have been folded into last week's episode, but OTOH I really liked how it fit with the transformation theme they played with Kara and Sam and Leoben, so I'm good with it being here. That said, I'm shocked that I found it moving. I'm not the biggest fan of either character, usually. I don't think Baltar's going after Tyrol following Tory's jibe was coincidental at all, and I thought it was really effective to contrast that with his later approach, where he's being truly sincere, so maybe that's why.(The anti-depressant thing I took as layman's ignorance; a lot of people think of them as "happy pills," and I could buy that for Galen. The delusional thing was weird though.)

f course, as the audience we're in the privileged position to see that that's not the only thing driving Kara not to make the rendez-vous.

I thought it was quite effective how they completely justified the mutiny from crew's perspective, while we the audience know that Leoben's telling the truth (at least about the civil-war,) and also that's there's probably some validity to Kara's "instincts." I'm pretty sure that while she seemed to be going nowhere, she was actually drawn to where she was for a reason, hence her compulsion to go out and find Leoben at that place and time. It's a real conflict.

Because actually I think Kara's speech about Matthias's death was very moving and true: people die in war for no reason at all and because of stupid accidents and there is absolutely no sense to it.

Definitely - I was wondering if I was missing something, because even if Leoben is plotting to lead them into a trap, killing Gunny doesn't further his evil plan at all. But everyone, including Kara, needed a scapegoat I guess. And great insight about that realization only making her stronger.

is there an ACTUAL GOD who was instrumental in Kara's journey.

I've thought for a while that "god" and/or the gods will turn out to be real in the BG'verse, explaining the head-characters and Kara's resurrection and Laura's visions. But I'm not at all convinced that "god" is going to turn out to be good, (or what we would think of as a god), especially now that we've seen head!Six beaming at Tory during Baltar's religious epiphany. Which worries me, especially given the connection to Kara!

Leoben speaks of Anders having a destiny, waiting for a 'singular moment of clarity', but I haven't actually ever got this sense from Anders.

I think that was meant to parallel his words to Kara, about how she's always known she was something more than/other than a normal human. And like her he's not ready to accept it yet, though I think he started to with Leoben's spiel about internal Cylon conflict and hope for an alliance. And true, we've never seen any indication of that with Sam, or at least, not before Taking A Break when he said something similar to Kara about "maybe you do have a destiny and that's why we keep finding/rescuing each other. (But I can accept it since even the writers didn't know Sam was a Cylon until around then, and we never knew him before the attacks). Assuming Leoben wasn't just rambling about he and Kara "not being meant to be enemies," I think this speaks to a connection between Kara and the Final 5, of some sort, hopefully positive.

ETA: I think Leoben's telling the truth about Kara too, and this episode it really hit me that she's fighting the change, just as Sam and Galen are, and that they all start to come to grips with it in this episode. I think the reason we didn't see it in the first two episodes was that it's just not an instantaneous transformation, and with all the high drama going on there she could focus on other things. But now that she's had to catch her breath, and started to lose her way to Earth, I think that she's realized that physical/material things just don't hold the same weight for her anymore, hence the detachment she spoke of with Sam. I don't know if that's going to be a permanent change or, as Leoben said, "an emptiness that won't be filled until she completes her destiny." But this ep made me feel much better about her seemingly haphazard characterization.

And yes, they need to fix Kara/Helo post-haste!

Edited at 2008-05-07 12:00 am (UTC)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on May 7th, 2008 01:36 am (UTC)
I thought it was quite effective how they completely justified the mutiny from crew's perspective, while we the audience know that Leoben's telling the truth (at least about the civil-war,) and also that's there's probably some validity to Kara's "instincts."
Absolutely. I found both 'sides' very well drawn and balanced in terms of how it tugged our sympathies from one to the other.

I've thought for a while that "god" and/or the gods will turn out to be real in the BG'verse, explaining the head-characters and Kara's resurrection and Laura's visions. But I'm not at all convinced that "god" is going to turn out to be good
Ohh... an evil 'god'! I like it! :) That's a much more interesting prospect than everyone eventually finding some kind of crazy 'enlightenment' via Baltar. ;)

Which worries me, especially given the connection to Kara!
Yes. I am deeply worried about Kara. More and more so every week. i saw you had made a couple of big posts about Kara and this ep but I haven't been able to face reading much meta this week because I'm feeling so blue about the show. So not snubbing you, just struggling with things personally. ;)

Assuming Leoben wasn't just rambling about he and Kara "not being meant to be enemies," I think this speaks to a connection between Kara and the Final 5, of some sort, hopefully positive.
Yeah.... I just don't see how any connection to the Cylons can be positive at all--and that's part of what I'm struggling with personally with BSG at the moment. If I had the time I'd write a post about it but the gist of it is that I'm not onboard with this 'Cylons and humans unite in harmony' ending that Ron seems to be sliding us towards. :( And Kara's right slap bang in the centre of that and I'm feeling really anxious and depressed about her for that reason. (Oh, and this is not a passive-agressive attempt to get you or anyone else to try and cheer me up, btw. ;) I'll work through it in my own way. *g*)

this episode it really hit me that she's fighting the change, just as Sam and Galen are, and that they all start to come to grips with it in this episode
Yes, she is--that really crystallised in this episode and makes sense of what we've seen before.

Leoben said, "an emptiness that won't be filled until she completes her destiny."
Hmm. Interesting you bring that up... I read it more as Kara won't have come fully to terms with the change she's undergone until she reaches Earth. I say that on instinct but I'm not sure what I'm basing it on.
(no subject) - frolicndetour on May 10th, 2008 01:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 10th, 2008 06:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicndetour on May 10th, 2008 06:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on May 10th, 2008 07:13 am (UTC) (Expand)