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24 July 2009 @ 05:20 pm
Kind of...  
... loving Russell. Does this mean 'Go and watch Supernatural!' is now an insult?! :D :D :D I could say it with such a lovely sneer. Really! ;)

I also rather like this quote (re. claiming Ianto's death was anti-gay): 'It's rather like children picking up nursery blocks and waving them in the air but having no idea what it entails.'

Ah yes. How often I have felt that way in fandom.

I do like it when show creators stick to their guns and tell a good story despite a screaming fanbase calling for their blood. That said, there is danger in arrogantly assuming your fanbase is always wrong. Russell's an interesting study to me now, since he has at times been everything I hate in a creator (self-indulgent, letting his own issues leak through into the show), and at other times (i.e. Children of Earth) has been so hard-core true to the story he's telling and the characters he writes. Let's hope the arrogance displayed in that article continues to be used for the Power of Good! ;)
Nickyobsessive24 on July 24th, 2009 07:59 am (UTC)
RTD is into the Wincest! \o/
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: as snapped by moibop_radar on July 24th, 2009 08:20 am (UTC)
How could he not be? ;)
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K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Missing Al and Milesbop_radar on July 24th, 2009 08:20 am (UTC)
:D Did that make you feel better?
Diana: Human -- Jack Harknessbutterfly on July 24th, 2009 08:22 am (UTC)
Does this mean 'Go and watch Supernatural!' is now an insult?! :D :D :D I could say it with such a lovely sneer. Really! ;)

That really is kinda how it came off to me. It sounds like he's saying, "Well, if you were only watching the show for the pretty (gay) boys, go off to watch a show that will cater to those needs."

I think, with any kind of strong-willed artist, you run the risk of arrogance. And that only becomes a problem when they stop delivering the goods.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Batgirlbop_radar on July 24th, 2009 09:00 am (UTC)
Yeah, exactly--arrogance can be awesome as long as it produces good results! When it doesn't.... oooohh boy.
Jayne L.: dwwavesserrico on July 24th, 2009 08:26 am (UTC)
He has his drawbacks as a showrunner, but I kind of worship him a bit right now for that interview. Or, you know, worship him A LOT. Whatever. *g*

"Those boys are *beautiful*." Yes, RTD. Yes they are. :D
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Empire Records leanbop_radar on July 24th, 2009 09:01 am (UTC)
Yeah, I worship him too. ;) I figure I've got to enjoy the novelty of AGREEing with a showrunner's arrogance for once.
Cris: Torchwood - Jack/Ianto - season 3 promoduskwillow on July 24th, 2009 08:43 am (UTC)
God, he pisses me off so much!
This type of response is the same as when asked what they think about fans not liking how they dealt with Clexana triangle in season 7 AlMiles said that "Because people are so invested in these characters. That is the great thing about Smallville fans — they are passionate about the show and the characters. Miles and I take so much crap online for various decisions, and the fact is it makes me smile, because people still care." They just don't get it.

I'm among people who are pissed off, and I dropped the show in an instant, and RTD, and a lot of people, seem to assume it's just because Ianto was killed off. That's just top of the ice berg, after two regulars were already killed off last year.
The main problem is that they took a quirky, unique show that for two years was about characters, and had the story fitted to tell those characters' story, and turned it into a general show, where characters were shaped and twisted to force a story he wanted to tell. It could have been any show. It would have worked brilliantly as Spooks, if you just replace aliens with terrorists. Everything that made Torchwood the show many of us loved was simply ignored or destroyed, and then they end up killing yet another regular, and to add insult he was killed off as some random RedShirt, in a scene that made both him and Jack look like morons because they had no plan going in.
I don't care about how good the story was when it comes at the expense of the show I loved for two seasons. And he just doesn't get it at all:
In many ways, Torchwood was designed as a digital weapon. It’s kind of multi-purpose, multi-adaptable, shape-shifting weapon that can become anything.

Not really. You can't take something that was established as one thing for two years, decide you don't like it the way it is and completely deconstruct it - and then get huffy when people who watched it for those two years get angry.
So I'll take the first two seasons, flawed as they were. That show head charm, humor and heart, and I keep rewatching the episodes. This mini series that aired was not Torchwood as it was established during first two seasons, it wasn't even close.

So yeah, the SPN comment, where he basically tells me that I don't know what I want to watch, and all I need is some "pretty boys" and some slash and I won't be able to tell the difference, is obnoxious, and just confirms to me that he's telling me to Eff off.

Eh, this turned into a rant. Maybe I haven't cooled down as I thought I was. *headdesk*
Sorry. :/
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Clex here with youbop_radar on July 24th, 2009 08:58 am (UTC)
Everything that made Torchwood the show many of us loved was simply ignored or destroyed
Yeah, I hear what you're saying but from a really different perspective, since I always thought Torchwood was a terrible show with nothing interesting at all to say--and I was delighted to see it finally tell an interesting (to me, all things being subjective) story. But I see that CoE was completely different from what came before. I guess I just feel like this was signalled in Jack's character from DW, and CoE was the sort of thing I expected when I first heard about Torchwood. It just seems like it took Russell a long time to get to the story he'd wanted to tell all along... and I guess he and I both don't really care about what came in between. I don't mean to be rude to Torchwood fans--I can definitely see why if you loved the show that was there for two seasons you might not love this. So rant away! Don't apologise! Believe me, I have cursed many a show director's blinkered, arrogant view of their audience before (I'm just enjoying the novelty of being in synch with one for once).
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(no subject) - beck_liz on July 24th, 2009 11:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
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K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: TW smilebop_radar on July 24th, 2009 01:04 pm (UTC)
Haha, yeah it is so insane that it is amusing. Admittedly I'm only free to be amused right now because I agree with him in this case--the arrogance could just as easily be infuriating.
Drooling Fan Girldroolfangrrl on July 24th, 2009 01:23 pm (UTC)
Just saw Ianto's death. Very melodramatic, one thing I would have changed was his very last words. Something like "Don't let them take the kids" would have fixed it for me, because as is his last concern is that Jack doesn't forget him.

And that Post-show thing? While of slight interest, is really kind of annoying me because it feels extraordinarily self-congratulatory.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Batgirlbop_radar on July 24th, 2009 11:44 pm (UTC)
Oh, yeah, his actual death made me eyeroll. Soooo dramatic. The only thing I liked about the last line was that Jack so obviously is going to try really hard to forget him.
Laura ☂: dw: thoughtstarryeyedmagic on July 24th, 2009 08:13 pm (UTC)
I would really like to sit down with RTD and have him explain to me why Ianto's death was necessary because I still really don't get it.

I understand what he's saying about character deaths being necessary sometimes. Deaths of favorite characters are always sad, but usually those deaths are accompanied by a feeling a purpose. I usually feel like the death elevates the plot or possibly gives the character who died (or characters close to them) more depth in some way. I didn't feel like Ianto's death did any of that.

Yes, the stakes were high so bad things would undoubtedly have to happen. But honestly, I feel like enough children died in episode 5 (on screen!) for the largeness of the situation to be felt by the viewers.

Also, at the start of this miniseries there was only 3 main characters to begin with! If there were 6 maybe I would understand how it would feel unlikely that they would all survive...but there were only 3 so their likely hood of survival does actually increase a bit.

Ianto was my favorite. I'm not going to lie about that. But really what upsets me the most about the whole thing was how entirely unnecessary it felt.
If Gwen had died (who I like, but much less than Ianto) I would have felt the same way.

I thought Children of Earth was a fantastic miniseries up until that point(better than the actual show). But with Ianto's death in episode 4 and all the horror in episode 5 I really did think they went too far. It wasn't good storytelling IMO.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Ericabop_radar on July 24th, 2009 11:42 pm (UTC)
I can explain why it was necessary from a narrative point of view, to an outsider, if that helps, but I imagine you will still remain annoyed by it. The big thing was that Jack had to pay a price, had to be challenged emotionally, as a consequence of his actions in the past. Also they needed to 'up the stakes' in the penultimate episode. I can tell you that as someone not passionately attached to any of the characters I would have found it a lot less dramatically compelling if none of the core characters had died. I do think the fact that three had died off previously made it harder for regular fans to swallow, but I see how it kind of had to be Ianto that died--his death was the most challenging to Jack and really set up the final scene where Gwen naively things Jack will stick around with her. Gwen was the perfect character to play that scene--if it had been Ianto the focus would have been on whether Jack was running from their relationship or not. Which wasn't the point.
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