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29 August 2009 @ 02:21 pm
Vid chats poll  
I have had Many Thoughts since posting about vidding fandom. One main one has to do with vidding chats.

For those new friends who may not know, I ran a series of chats about vidding in my journal. A bit of history about them: vidding chats began because I wanted to talk to other people about things to do with vidding (pretty simple!) and because I'd recently realised a few other friends wanted to too. We originally polled for interest on them here. Once they got started, I personally underestimated the interest from a wider group but it was really cool to have people from different backgrounds and experience levels pop up and share their thoughts. I tried hard to make the chats welcoming and inclusive, but I'm also aware that my own biases (including a propensity to crap on!) came through. And I became more self-conscious over time about the limitations of me being the OP. I'd always hoped people would talk to each other as well as to me, and this did happen a bit but there was still definitely an extent to which it felt like I and other people were commenting into a vacuum. Also, there were many great suggestions for topics but I didn't always feel I would be the best person to host them. For instance, some people wanted more of a focus on newbie issues, but I can't get around the fact that after three years of vidding I'm not really a newbie any more. And some people wanted more technical or high-level (for want of a better word) discussions and I thought 'ohhh, that would be cool! I'd love that too!' but wondered how to host them because I wouldn't necessarily have much to contribute to a discussion myself. Of course, I could have hosted both (and sort of did) by being honest about the perspective I was speaking from and encouraging others to share their thoughts.

The other issue was simply a time one: I got very busy at work and still am. Some momentum with them was lost. So... I've been wondering for some time whether vid chats should have their own community. And following recent discussion, that seems even more desireable to me. So that they can be seen to belong to the wider community, so that they seem more welcoming because it's not just one person hosting and so that there can be more chats covering more areas.

Of course, I have no idea if other people agree! And it would totally depend on whether there's enough interest and whether other people would be willing to host chats some time. Personally I feel there would have to be other moderators of such a comm, other than me. While I can't imagine never hosting one again myself, I think it'd be really important to have people from a range of backgrounds and experience levels host. I'd absolutely love feedback on this. So! Poll.

Poll #1450417 Vid chats

If vid chats were to continue I would prefer them to be:

in your journal.
10(37.0%)
in a separate, dedicated community.
17(63.0%)

If vid chats had their own community:

I would probably be more likely to participate.
3(10.0%)
I would probably be as likely to participate, depending on topic.
25(83.3%)
I would probably be less likely to participate.
2(6.7%)

If vid chats had their own community:

I would prefer there to be a group of moderators who took it in turn to host chats.
5(16.7%)
I would prefer it to be open for anyone to host chats.
7(23.3%)
I would prefer some balance of both--people could host chats after/in consultation with the moderators.
17(56.7%)
I would prefer something else I'll tell you about in comments.
1(3.3%)

If vid chats had their own community:

I would be willing to host a chat.
3(9.7%)
I might be willing to host a chat.
16(51.6%)
I wouldn't be willing to host but I might participate in the chat in comments.
12(38.7%)

Wherever/however vid chats continue, I would like more of a focus on:

vid viewing rather than creating.
0(0.0%)
vid genres.
0(0.0%)
topics of interest to newbies.
0(0.0%)
topics of interest to more experienced vidders.
0(0.0%)
technical topics: e.g. effects, colour, motion, credits.
0(0.0%)
general topics about the creative process.
2(6.9%)
topics about interaction: e.g. feedback and concrit.
0(0.0%)
something else I'll mention in the comments.
0(0.0%)

The best thing about vid chats was:

The worst thing about vid chats was:



Please feel free to comment with any other thoughts!
 
 
Current Location: work desky
Current Mood: curiouscurious
 
 
 
rhoboatrhoboat on August 29th, 2009 04:35 am (UTC)
One of the things I think *might* make vid chats more inclusive would be instead of having a group of moderators which may seem off-putting to those "oustside" is to do this sort of "challenge-style." By that, I mean where you start out with moderated chats, but then whoever participates in the resulting discussion may get picked to host the next chat. Of course, people would be free to decline and the next willing person on the list (perhaps chosen randomly) would be the one to host the next chat. Topics of discussion by whoever is chosen next could also be subject to moderator approval. Of course, I don't know how well this would work until put into practice.

Did that make any sense? ^_^

Edited at 2009-08-29 04:37 am (UTC)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on August 29th, 2009 04:40 am (UTC)
It does! And it's a really cool thought! It's always really hard to make a space feel inclusive while at the same time deal with the fact that someone needs to organise something and encourage things. ;) We might have to trial and error a few approaches for all I know... I'm open to anything. Thanks so much for sharing that idea--I hadn't thought of that possibility.
(no subject) - rhoboat on August 29th, 2009 04:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 29th, 2009 05:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rhoboat on August 29th, 2009 05:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
laurashapiro on August 29th, 2009 03:39 pm (UTC)
My one fear of starting a comm for these is that the comm would die. I have seen so many vidding comms start and flounder, because nobody posted to them. I'm not sure why that is, as the same conversations often seem to flourish in people's LJs. Maybe people have anxiety about posting in a space that's perceived as more public?

Anyway, I totally get what you're saying about wanting to broaden participation, and I think it's a worthy goal. I'm just wondering if it might backfire.

Maybe as an interim step, you could continue hosting in your LJ but post announcements of the discussion on the other vidding comms, to attract wider readership? Or do a distributed thing where you arrange for people to sign up to host chats in their own journals, and publicize them as above?

Your call, obviously. I'll continue to read/participate wherever the chats are. (:
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: TW smilebop_radar on August 29th, 2009 11:50 pm (UTC)
You know... what you mention is a big reason why I opted to not start a comm in the first place. I have a terrible track record with comms personally.

I think regardless we should publicise it around, yes. I also like the idea of sharing them around people's personal journals. Wish I'd included that as a tick boxy but didn't want to assume others would be willing to do that.
(no subject) - sisabet on August 30th, 2009 05:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 05:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sisabet on August 30th, 2009 08:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 10:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sisabet on August 31st, 2009 03:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 31st, 2009 03:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on August 30th, 2009 02:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 10:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on August 30th, 2009 10:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 10:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on August 30th, 2009 10:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 10:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on August 30th, 2009 11:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 31st, 2009 12:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on August 31st, 2009 12:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 31st, 2009 01:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on August 31st, 2009 03:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on August 31st, 2009 07:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on August 29th, 2009 11:56 pm (UTC)
Rotating vidding chat seems to be a popular idea... I'm like you (ha! in so many ways!) about feeling more free to spam an OP I don't know with comments in a comm than if it's their personal journal...

Ohh, yes, from personal experience, bouncing ideas off someone is really valuable to the hosting process.
bradcpubradcpu on August 29th, 2009 06:32 pm (UTC)
If you don't use a dedicated community for the chats, I would think you (or the current host) could at least announce each new chat somewhere like the vid_commentary comm, with the topic and a link to the chat.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on August 29th, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC)
Yes! I definitely agree. Regardless of format it would be great to widen the publicity/announcements. Cool to know vid_commentary would be happy to have announcements of that sort. :)
daybreak777: viddingdaybreak777 on August 29th, 2009 10:09 pm (UTC)
That first question stumped me! I don't know why comms make me so shy. I guess they grow so much and fast and then I feel I don't know people? Like a comm can have a bunch of different people but only a few post. I start to wonder if everyone is still interested. So I don't know about the first question. All I know is I will definitely participate in some way. :-)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on August 29th, 2009 11:58 pm (UTC)
Cool! The comm call is a tough one, and I'm honestly torn two ways on it... I don't know which would best survive... rotating around personal journals, or a dedicated comm. It's good to hear that people will probably participate regardless though!
aychebaycheb on August 30th, 2009 09:47 am (UTC)
I voted for a comm but that was mostly because the alternative seemed to be you doing all the work. I OK with posting in comms or personal journals (when I have time) but I do agree that the comms always seemed to come and go too quickly. As soon as the posting frequency falls below a certain level it feels as if they're inactive and that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whereas personal journals have a life beyond posting vid chats so it's easier for them to come back to life. I suppose though that without a central authority how to select the next host and what to do if, for whatever reason, they don't get around to it might be problems. Maybe rhoboat's idea could help there by providing a semi-automatic mechanism for setting up the next chat.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 10:36 am (UTC)
Mmm, I'm increasingly feeling rotating around personal journals might be the way to go? I definitely know what you mean about comms. It takes a lot to keep them afloat. It's a tricky thing and requires more thought!
deathisyourart: ME - Death at workdeathisyourart on August 30th, 2009 03:56 pm (UTC)
Speaking as a comm mod, I would definitely suggest keeping the chats in personal journals. Vidders are not chatty in a community setting, it just makes it easier to organize; that is the ONLY benefit of a community over a personal journal.

And as Brad said above, if you wanted to post a list of upcoming chats, or a masterlist every month or two we would be happy to have it at vid_commentary.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on August 30th, 2009 10:09 pm (UTC)
Vidders are not chatty in a community setting
Hee. We're such recluses. *amused*

Yeah... I hear what you're saying, and I'm thinking no to a comm...
Amy: scc: cameronsuch_heights on August 31st, 2009 12:40 pm (UTC)
Hi, I am delurking and posting in your polls! *insert appropriate lolcat here*

I hadn't heard of this before and I think it sounds very awesome in whatever format you decide on.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!bop_radar on September 3rd, 2009 04:42 am (UTC)
Yay! I love a delurk! :) Thanks for the enthusiasm, it was a lot of fun and I loved seeing people kind of find each other in the comments... that was the best bit for me. I'll post up a plan this weekend, hopefully.
acridnymacridnym on September 3rd, 2009 01:31 am (UTC)
I’m another person for keeping the chats in personal ljs. They have a welcoming vibe there that would be harder to capture if they were their own separate community.

Among the posts on inclusiveness, you brought up the idea of a comm for casual vid talk. I’d love to see a place for that, whether on a vid chats comm, between the “serious” modded discussions or in its own comm. Technically, the vidding lj comm is open to all things vidding but in practice it’s mostly vid announcements and I’d be uncomfortable posting any casual “let’s talk vidding!” comments there.

I hope my “worst thing about vid chats” answer didn’t come across as snarky. I loved the chats and even though I only found out about them toward the end, I enjoyed reading through the older ones. I want to expand on the answer I gave because the need for speedy replies that is standard on the net has been one of the biggest barriers for me. When I see a discussion I want to be part of, I like to turn the issues over in my mind for a few days, mentally crafting a response piecemeal. When I do start to write, I write slowly. When I find a post I want to comment on, assuming the post isn’t already too old, the pressure to think, compose, and post my say in the two day window amidst work, vidding, and annoying real life stuff, takes the enjoyment out of it. I would like to see chat topics open and alive for at least two weeks. I think this issue is related to what you said about commenting into a vacuum. I don’t know how it would be accomplished but if the emphasis were on a dialogue, there wouldn’t be the pressure to get all your thoughts out in one big-ass comment.

For vidding chats, I’d like to see intermediate stuff. And I do think the previous chats addressed intermediates (as well as vid-fans at all other levels, which is why I liked them). I want something for vidders who have graduated from WMM and are trying to find their way around Premiere. Something for vidders who have read all the newbie guides, know the deadly sins of talky face, white flashes, and spuffy, and want to take the next step. Good vidding is more than the absence of pet peeve-y mistakes! This ties into the inclusiveness conversation: maybe a reason so many vidders consider themselves newbies is the only other “class” is deified big name vidder.

I’d also like a chat or guide on Avisynth. The otherwise awesome amv tech guide assumes a knowledge of finding, installing, and tweaking aviscripts that I’ve been struggling to obtain.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: TW smilebop_radar on September 3rd, 2009 04:48 am (UTC)
Yay! So happy to have your thoughts. And I agree... I know there are other comms (I think fan_vids is one?) that in theory accept anything chatty about vids but I too feel nervous posting casual non-announcement type stuff there. I'm still not sure what a casual vid talk place would look like but great to hear there's support for it. I'll keep thinking!

I hope my “worst thing about vid chats” answer didn’t come across as snarky.
Not at all! I have that issue all the time. Personally, for the record, I am always happy to have 'late' participation. I think I could include that in a list of guidelines and it would be good to encourage people to pop back to them later, after a few days. Hmm.

omething for vidders who have read all the newbie guides, know the deadly sins of talky face, white flashes, and spuffy, and want to take the next step
That sounds like ME! And omg, yes, to the 'class' thing. Intermediate vidders unite! I have been flailing around in the 'out of newbie but still can't do much tech' stage for soooo long and it's really frustrating.

I'm no good on Avisynth as I'm a Mac vidder, but I am sure there are people out there who could host an Avisynth chat.

I'm going to put up a post calling for specific topics shortly and we'll see how it goes... :)
here's luckheresluck on September 12th, 2009 02:07 pm (UTC)
Just chiming in here to say that I really like the idea of having chats hosted in personal journals, but distributing the hosting -- having it rotate somehow so the work isn't all on you! Like Laura, I've seen a lot of new vid communities just... fall off into nothingness, whereas when someone posts in their own journal, there's usually a group of people already comfortable with that poster who are willing to get the conversation rolling. And if the poster is explicit about the post being an open chat, and that people who don't already know the poster are just as welcome to comment as people who do, that might help the people who tend to think "oh, I don't know this person, I can't jump in!" And (as several people have pointed out) announcing chats in communities would help spread the word beyond the individual poster's circle of acquaintance.

Um. Sorry for the ramble! I just really liked the vidding chats (even though I was often reading them after the fact and thus not contributing) and would love to see them continue. And I would totally be up for hosting one or more if it seems that distributed hosting is the way to go.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Aishwarya lanternbop_radar on September 13th, 2009 06:00 am (UTC)
if the poster is explicit about the post being an open chat, and that people who don't already know the poster are just as welcome to comment as people who do
Great idea! I'm currently putting together a little FAQ/kit for hosters so will include that. Thank you for the willingness to host--that's terrific! It's great to be getting them out to a wider audience--should make them even more interesting! (And it will be nice for me not to be always hosting. ;p)