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30 January 2007 @ 09:57 pm
Battlestar Galactica 3.13 Taking a break from all your worries  
I kept thinking I hated this episode, and then at the last minute it would jerk me back in and I found myself enjoying it despite myself. It was a very odd feeling. *frowns at it*

The things I absolutely did not like:
- the random creepy children
- the stupid lullaby
- gooey-beard-ness
- the painful glasses flashback (Yuh! We get it, already! Some of us can even pick up such symmetry and symbolism on our own, thank you very much!)

Along the same lines of my complaint about the glasses flashback, I was VERY ambivalent about the literalism in the exploration of Gaius's subconsciousness. It was incredibly unsubtle--and it lacked suspense because as viewers we're already privy to Gaius's internal life. *sigh* However, I can't can it completely, because it produced a few interesting points:
- I liked the idea that Roslin and Adama thought Gaius was holding back, when it fact he was telling them all exactly what he experienced, bar the ridiculous 'Chosen One' delusion
- I like that Gaius broke and said that no, he was not a Cylon--because in the pit of his soul that's what he fears
- I loved Adama saying that they'll never get an acknowledgment of guilt from Gaius because he literally does not see himself that way. (But a WHOLE EPISODE to prove that? Meh. Not sure that was completely necessary...)

Apart from that, Laura and Gaeta and their interactions with Gaius rocked, so I really can't complain that much. And I'm really fascinated by Gaeta now. Is he a Cylon?! I think he might be! I love that his motivations are a bit in shadow--in an episode where everyone else was busy being laid bare or laying themselves bare of their own free wills, it was refreshing that there is mystery surrounding someone still! And Laura is always a pleasure to watch.

Thoughts on near-death experiences
So, I couldn't help comparing Gaius's near-death experience to Lee's. And I decided I really really like the fact that Lee didn't see anything, whereas Gaius had a whole hallucination that was a direct extrapolation from his subconscious. That's so fitting, because Lee's the atheist, whereas Gaius is desperate to believe but incredibly confused about what he's searching for. Their deaths suit them.

State of the OT4
So, I really didn't expect the developments that just took place, but you know what? I think I like 'em. Though I can imagine they've pissed off a great many people. The reason I like them, I think, is because I'm a Lee fan first and foremost and this episode was largely about him--his change, his journey. And Jamie delivered a fantastic performance. It's really hard for me to hate any development on the show that respects his character as much as this episode did. Even if he's frustrating--which yes, I see that he is. But I love him, so there! :-p

Lee's bar-banter with the Chief was very revealing. Their marriages stand in stark contrast to each other. The Chief and Cally may have screaming fights, and they may need their space away from each other, but there is absolutely no doubt about their commitment to one another. Chief's straight 'no's to Lee's questions about Sharon made me laugh. No, honey, other people don't constantly wonder 'what if' in their marriages. That is not normal, sweetheart! And I also loved that the Chief was able to be flippant about marriage, but Lee couldn't do so so easily--because his marriage really is in trouble, despite the surface calm.

I liked the symmetry of having both Dee and Sam lay it on the line to Lee and Kara. Because Lee and Kara were in a stalemate, so clearly the next move was not going to be initiated by either one of them. And it was a huge relief to have them come out and address the matter head-on. It also makes emotional sense following the altercations on the Algae Planet because it's all risen to the surface. The silence around the issue must feel more absurd than ever. I loved Kara's terror when Sam asked her if she loved Lee. (Oh, Sam, I love you for asking it and being so calm about it!) And as far as I'm concerned that waiver and then 'maybe' means YES, YES, YES! *treasures*

As soon as Dee started actually saying Kara's name, I instantly liked her better. I'm so sooo glad she's moved out of frigid pissiness and into honest emotion. And I think Lee is also glad. In fact, her doing so was really significant. I've always maintained that Lee recognises himself in Dee to some extent. And earlier in the ep I'd been giggling to myself about the irony of seeing Lee staggering home drunk to find Dee sitting up working on reports and being bitchy at him--because in a Kara/Lee marriage, it would be Lee sitting at home waiting on Kara and ready with the bitchy lines for when she finally got in! But Dee hasn't allowed Lee access to her emotional side--a side that he relates to very strongly for a long long time. The silence has been very bad for their marriage. And when Lee threw out that bitchy line about Dee's insecurities, I don't think he ever expected her to respond with such honesty. And there was a lot of dignity in her response, which he would also respect. He knows exactly how hard it is to be in love with someone, to feel lucky just to be near them, and to retain your dignity in the face of rejection. So I think there was a lot of self-identification going on in this episode where Lee was concerned.

So, I (*blush*) kind of loved his apology to Dee. I love that he was desperate to win her back. This is what I always needed to see about them! I always suspected that this self-identification was at the heart of Lee's connection to her, but I feel better having had it confirmed in this episode. And I also like that he says he loved her. I believe him. Love takes different forms--and I like that he admitted he may always love Kara as well. The honesty in this episode, from both Kara and Lee, was great.

The other thing I loved about Lee's change of heart, if we can call it that, is that it was driven both by deep emotions and by chance. Because it did feel like it could have gone another way... when Kara came to him and asked if he would leave Dee, Lee was reeling. He needed longer to adjust to this sudden change of heart than she gave him. I understand that Kara needed an instant answer, but that's not Lee. And in that moment, his heart would have skipped a beat thinking 'it could really happen! we could really be together!' and I'm not at all surprised that his first reaction was to attack--because all those emotions he'd put a lid on about being rejected, about how infuriatingly unobtainable Kara has been, were coming bubbling up to the surface. And no, it was not very nice behaviour, but it was very believable. And Kara's 'think about it--that's what you do best' would have only made things worse. Rather than showing him that anything had changed, rather than reassuring him that rejection was not just around the corner again, she responded with her usual dismissiveness of him and his emotional concerns.

And it's easy to forget it in the shippiness of wanting to see Kara and Lee consummate that bubbling desire, but Kara cut Lee really deeply and he's also been through an awful lot on his own since then--which she is not interested in addressing or discussing. Dee is good for Lee. And I do not doubt for a second that he's always wanted to make good on the vow he made on his wedding day, because he thinks that Dee deserves that--his love for her is the love that's more deserving of being nurtured, given that his love for Kara has only brought him torturous pain.

And Lee lost his ring--while it was another instance of clumsy, obvious symbolism in this episode, I kind of thought it worked. And hey I have had that moment where you suddenly realise that something you've taken for granted is ruined and you clutch at it desperately, hoping against hope that you can patch it back together. (You think I'm joking, but I kept a dried bunch of roses in my bedroom for a year and a half--they were given to me by my boyfriend the day I broke up with him--until I won him back again. Yes, people, I AM Lee Adama!) Am I a Lee apologist? Prob'ly! :-)

So, there we go. Who knew I would be so happy about a Lee/Dee reconciliation? And, you know, I'd feel more sorry for Kara, but honestly I think she needs some time to sort some other stuff out--like the whole Leoben/destiny thing. And Sammy's a good shoulder drinking buddy for that stuff. Plus the evil bitchy side of Lee and I says that she was owed a rejection, dammit!

BUT. We still have the emo-couple stare-offs! Waaaaaahhhhhh!!!!! *flails* OMG, the EMO!! I love teary Lee, but oh, man, that was like getting punched in the gut all over again! Has anything changed?! At the end of the day has anything really changed? I DON'T KNOW!!!! *weeps*

Also: Where was Helo?! *frowns*
 
 
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The First Evil: The Cag - siren_iconsasta77 on January 30th, 2007 11:07 am (UTC)
I really enjoyed reading your post. I think yours is the only positive take on the episode I've read! :) You bring up some really interesting insights, I'm not sure I completely agree with all of them, but I don't disagree with them either. I know I was able to make my peace with Lee's characterization of late because of this episode. It's not so much I see him identifying with Dee or that I believe he's in love with her, but Lee Adama kind of sucks at personal relationships and there is something broken in him that makes him selfish when it comes to love so nothing here screamed OOC for me. OK, maybe Lee getting sloppy drunk. I don't see that in keeping with him being the CAG, not to mention, as much as I adore Jamie the boy plays a lousy drunk. ;)

- I loved Adama saying that they'll never get an acknowledgment of guilt from Gaius because he literally does not see himself that way. (But a WHOLE EPISODE to prove that? Meh. Not sure that was completely necessary...)

It dawned on me the morning after seeing this episode that it really didn't do anything to advance the characters or plot. Baltar could have and would have gotten a trial wihtout the torture. Gaius had no great epiphany or revealed anything about him *we* already didn't know. And the looks exchanged by Lee and Kara at the end told me that no matter who they are sitting with or what they are saying to their spouses, it ain't over yet...damn it!

He knows exactly how hard it is to be in love with someone, to feel lucky just to be near them, and to retain your dignity in the face of rejection. So I think there was a lot of self-identification going on in this episode where Lee was concerned.

This I had not thought of and it's an excellent point. He seemed rather stunned when she said that the marriage was over and she walked out of the room (this could have worked as the point that made him realize he didn't want to lose her rather than the embarrassing and badly acted drunken ring search). And I think the reason he was so stunned is that he's never been able to just walk away from Kara. Yes, I thought he showed a remarkable amount of dignity and reserve when he found out about her marriage to Sam, but what we saw was a year and a half later he was still holding onto a lot of feelings and bitterness in regards to her. He wasn't able to just say 'It's over' and Dee apparently could. It's that strength that he was drawn to before and I think he some ways he wants to be more like Dee and realizes that Kara does often bring out the worst in him.

He needed longer to adjust to this sudden change of heart than she gave him. I understand that Kara needed an instant answer, but that's not Lee.

That scene when he questions if she's going to do another 180 on him was Lee's best moment and Kara's worst. Given how many times he has come close to having her only to have her change her mind, walk away, or rip out his heart he has every right to question if this is going to be another instance of her having a whim, but then going back to Sam.

And it's not just their lives they are fraking around with, two other people will suffer as well. It really pissed me off when she said to him, "Think about it, Lee. It's what you're best at." Yes, he does think, perhaps too much sometimes, but they both should be thinking here. Kara's impulsiveness may be great in a cockpit or in a fire fight, but when it comes to relationships you can't rush into anything and you can't give the other person about five seconds to decide if they want to give you another chance and throw away the life they have now.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee Apollobop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:02 pm (UTC)
part I
Lee Adama kind of sucks at personal relationships and there is something broken in him that makes him selfish when it comes to love so nothing here screamed OOC for me
*nods* As far as Lee being in love with Dee--no, I don't think he is--not that sweeping romance or exciting thrill or soulmate-attraction. But I do think he loves her--he respects her as a person and he is very fond of her.

OK, maybe Lee getting sloppy drunk. I don't see that in keeping with him being the CAG, not to mention, as much as I adore Jamie the boy plays a lousy drunk. ;)
Yeah, I had the same conflicted emotions! It was really confronting to watch, but on the other hand, it was so fun to see that performance from Jamie! On balanced reflection I do think it was overplayed--if the breakdown had been more private I would have preferred it. But in public, I think he'd be sure to be more 'together' as the CAG. And he must have drunk a LOT because he's a pretty big drinker anyway. The ring search was just painful... and I don't like this new trend towards COMPLETE LACK OF SUBTELTY.

It dawned on me the morning after seeing this episode that it really didn't do anything to advance the characters or plot
Yup. That was my biggest issue with it too. *stabs* Though I honestly honestly can say that I still liked parts of it--I needed that Lee/Dee stuff fleshed out. It filled a void for me emotionally. But it was a waste of an ep apart from that, and frankly that stuff could have been integrated into the story a long long time before now. So I'm not a total fan of this ep either. But I do love Lee, and I'm buzzing with thoughts on him following this ep. I have BSG-insomnia again! Only last night when I got up to come downstairs and write my way out of it, the net was down. :-( WOE!

I think the reason he was so stunned is that he's never been able to just walk away from Kara
Oh, yes, I like that! I hadn't quite drilled down into that stunned moment of his. That's one place where he and Dee differ, and I think it challenges him to confront the issue. I was thinking overnight about the way in which both Dee and Lee 'own' their actions in this episode. Dee comes out and admits to always knowing she was at the mercy of both Lee and Kara, accepting leftover crumbs, but feeling 'lucky' regardless because she was in love. And as a response Lee decides to 'own' his decision to marry her. Rather than just telling her that he's honourable, he shows her. (Which is another challenge that Dee threw down--'honour' being a pretty empty word when your husband spends NO meaningful time with you at all.)

I think he some ways he wants to be more like Dee and realizes that Kara does often bring out the worst in him.
I like that you have a slightly different take on his attraction to Dee, and I sort of agree... although I struggle with seeing Dee as 'strong'. For me, she was definitely at her strongest in this episode so I had no problem buying Lee's attraction to her right now. And in the dynamic set up within this episode, Lee essentially had a choice between confirming himself as a total asshole husband and leaving Dee to be with Kara (making their entire marriage pointless), or stepping up to the plate and admitting his mistakes, his weaknesses and his vulnerability and trying to match her strength.

That scene when he questions if she's going to do another 180 on him was Lee's best moment and Kara's worst.
Ha! And it was both of them at their most 'them'. Kara at her most Kara: no grand proclamations, no emotion, just a matter of fact 'so are we on?' That was never going to work for Lee.
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
carpenyx: BSG - Sharon/Helocarpenyx on January 30th, 2007 11:08 am (UTC)
I really like your persceptive on the episode. I took a more negative approach to this episode.

I think I was just hoping so much for some sort of resoluation with the 4 and at the end of the day I didn't see one, except that they sorta ended up back where they started. As much as I'm a K/L 'shipper at this point, I just really wanted some sort of decision to be made either way.

I had a hard time with the Gaius plotline. I think partly because I was too focused on the pilots and getting frustrated. I do think that James Callis did a wonderful job with the acting and he's brillant.

Had you seen the missing scene? (Roslin and Caprica Six?) If you haven't, nebakanezer posted it on her LJ & it's brillant! I really wished they had kept it in as I think it would've added t othe Gaius plotline.

I missed Helo too!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee/Helobop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:06 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your comment! I gather most people disliked this episode intensely and I'm certainly not going to argue that it was a success. But there was a lot I could take out of it from a Lee perspective.

The lack of resolution was the one HUGE problem with this episode. Like you, I want some sort of decision one way or another. (And hey, they can always time-jump forward a year and pull a 180 on us later--whatever!) And when I thought I was getting one, those across-the-barroom stares just went on waaaay too long.

You mention having a hard time with the Gaius plot--I agree--and I don't think the two plots meshed well together at all. Emotionally it was a strange tug of war and it didn't come off.

I haven't seen the missing scene! I will have to check it out. *g*

I want my Helo back!! Why couldn't Lee have been drinking with him?!
daybreak777: Kara prayingdaybreak777 on January 30th, 2007 03:35 pm (UTC)
I love people who can explain Lee to me. I was so baffled by him. In my shippy point of view, finally Kara came to give him what he said he wanted and Lee just froze. For Kara, that was a big step. You mention the waver and even when she’s offering to leave Sam, there’s a flicker in her eyes when Lee doesn’t jump at it. It hurts and it hurts her to remember how she hurt him.

I’ve said this before but these two truly don’t know each other. Not really. Lee trying to push her to divorce didn’t work. Her offering Lee the world and then expecting him to decide in an instant didn’t work. I thought back in Eye of Jupiter there was a chance for some mutual understanding. When Lee says, “It is a big deal, it is” about three times and Kara didn’t run away. There was a moment when she realized, this is Lee and unlike Sam, cheating is a big deal for him. So she seemed to try to begin to accept who Lee really is. But now I see that they’re both still too wrapped up in their own stuff to see the other’s needs which is probably why they shouldn’t be together right now. I can’t remember when Lee and Kara had an honest conversation together about what they've been through. There was honesty in this ep from both of them but not with each other.

Along the cheating line. I hate to say it because I like Kara so much but it bothered me that she could sleep with Sam so soon after almost being with Lee. What exactly was she offering? Does she realize that kind of open relationship (which is so cool of Sam in a way) could never work with Lee? As a shipper, even if I got what I wanted and Lee had left Dee, I don’t think it would have worked until the two people in question actually get to know each other. Lee still knows nothing about Caprica, New Caprica, Kacey or Kara’s possible destiny. Kara still doesn’t know why Lee tried to commit suicide. That’s so huge.

I guess I get your point about Lee seeing himself in Dee. I guess that’s why he loves her. He can understand her. But is that the love you build a marriage on? Where’s his passion for her? I’m not so into Cally and Chief’s relationship cause how it began but when she was kidnapped, Chief was freaking out. I don’t see Lee freaking out over Dee. He fears losing her but is that really about losing her? Or is it about fear, guilt, and the loss of stability? You mentioned chance. If Kara had given Lee ten more minutes, just stayed in that space with him a little longer, would he still have chosen Dee? I just keep remembering that Lee married Dee in reaction to Kara’s marriage to Sam. His love for Dee is kind of lukewarm at best to me. Safe and understandable but is that really love, Bop? Dee really loves him, I believe that but I don’t know if she’s good for him. I think she’ll keep him where he is. Safe, comfortable, nurtured. Maybe he needs that right now.

But later, who’s going to push him? Yeah, it’s painful but if he and Kara ever climb across the chasm of misunderstanding and self-interest to actually see the other person’s point of view, it would be such huge growth for both of them. It may have to happen while they’re apart but I don’t think either of their current partners can inspire the leap of faith that loving some beyond all reason and just because you can’t stop, can inspire. *Reins myself in from extreme shipoholism*

Nothing wrong with being an apologist! Someone has to explain Lee. There are so many different points of view on this ep that it adds layers I’m not sure even the writers intended. I just keep rewatching and rewatching.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee thinking hmmbop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:29 pm (UTC)
I’ve said this before but these two truly don’t know each other. Not really
I totally agree. Their approaches to each other are always tragically inappropriate for the other person. I definitely agree with you that that moment in Eye of Jupiter was a real chance--the first sign I'd seen of change. Kara not running away was a HUGE deal. But that moment was so fleeting and, as you say, we saw them both back wrapped up in themselves in this episode again.

There was honesty in this ep from both of them but not with each other.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly! I had the same thought last night (I have BSG!insomnia again!). I was thinking about the ways in which both Lee and Dee 'own' their actions and emotions in this episode with each other--but Lee doesn't do that with Kara, doesn't even see the way in which he could do that with Kara. And I imagine it's the same for Kara. She was remarkably honest with her 'maybe' to Sam, if not exactly verbose about it. But she's not honest with Lee--she doesn't tell him anything about the reasons for approaching him again. Though in fact Sam's words have obviously struck a deep chord with her. But how was Lee to know that without her telling him?

it bothered me that she could sleep with Sam so soon after almost being with Lee. What exactly was she offering? Does she realize that kind of open relationship (which is so cool of Sam in a way) could never work with Lee?
That didn't bother me, actually. I think I was ok with it because she asked Sam why he was being so accommodating--so I saw it as her testing him out, seeing what was going on and how much she could get away with. It may also have been the first tentative step to reconnect with him given that Lee had shut the door. And yeah, Sam's incredibly cool about the open relationship thing. But no, it could never work with Lee. Never. And I'm not sure Kara does know that.

As a shipper, even if I got what I wanted and Lee had left Dee, I don’t think it would have worked until the two people in question actually get to know each other. Lee still knows nothing about Caprica, New Caprica, Kacey or Kara’s possible destiny. Kara still doesn’t know why Lee tried to commit suicide. That’s so huge.
*nods vehemently* I completely agree. It's incredible really--they adore one another, they need each other like they need air--but they know so little about what matters to each other at a fundamental level. Or even how they each function emotionally--they're constantly at odds, confused by the other's behaviour because it doesn't fit their own emotional needs. And while I will still always ship them because of the insane chemistry and tragic love, I do recognise that there's a gulf between them. (The gulf makes it kind of hotter, imo, though also torturous and angsty!)

Before this comment gets too long to post, I'll just quickly say that I don't like Chief and Cally's relationship either. But I get that the writers want us to 'buy' them as a more committed couple now. And I'll answer your Lee/Dee questions in a sec!
(no subject) - daybreak777 on January 31st, 2007 05:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on February 1st, 2007 07:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - daybreak777 on January 31st, 2007 06:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on February 1st, 2007 07:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - daybreak777 on January 31st, 2007 06:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
Dualbunny: Lee & Kara profiles - shadowserenitydualbunny on January 30th, 2007 04:11 pm (UTC)
It makes me so happy that I have Kara-readers and Lee-readers on my f-list. Really enjoyed reading this. :D
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Kara/Lee dreamybop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I love having Kara-readers on my f'list too! I don't know what I would do without them as she does not come instinctively to me, love her though I do. *g*
CapnZebbie: stalkerkittycapnzebbie on January 30th, 2007 07:30 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed the episode, although it did seem kind of circular, or spiraled--just turned in on itself so that at the end, everything seemed the same as it was at the beginning.

And really, trying to torture Gaius by making him think he's crazy and hallucinating--how redundant is that?
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Gaius dancebop_radar on January 30th, 2007 07:55 pm (UTC)
Heh--yeah, redundant! And circular. It was a puzzle.
blowjobs for jesus: bsg Apollokristiinthedark on January 30th, 2007 08:06 pm (UTC)
Gooey-beardness. Hee.

There were many enjoyable moments in this episode, and you highlighted all of them. Chief's "no" to Lee's question about whether or not he thinks about "what if" made me go "awww" and grin at the same time. Lee was just so sure that the way he feels is normal. *pets him* And I liked the Lee/Dee stuff (omg, I'm having good feelings towards her two weeks in a row!), because, I don't know, her emotions laid wide open like that really spoke to me. When people get all honest and tell me what's truly going on inside of them, I respond to that, no matter what they're actually telling me. But, also, I could get where she was coming from. I've been in that kind of relationship- well, I was 18 and it was my first, but still- so it was cool to see her say, 'okay, enough. I'm better than this.' Go, Dee!

I would have been thrilled with Gaius's journey if anything would have actually happened. That was the main problem with the entire episode to me. At the end of the hour, we're right back where we started from. Blah. I've never felt that way about a BSG ep before! But I love to watch the characters and feel what they feel and see what they see, so even if it was not the best, I still liked it a lot. *is easy*

(I love that you kept those roses! That is so ridiculously romantic and very LEE. *hearts you*)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on January 30th, 2007 08:52 pm (UTC)
Lee was just so sure that the way he feels is normal. *pets him*
Ha! Yes, he was so funny trying to convince himself that all he had were 'normal' marital woes. HUAHAHAHAHAHAA no.

When people get all honest and tell me what's truly going on inside of them, I respond to that, no matter what they're actually telling me. But, also, I could get where she was coming from. I've been in that kind of relationship- well, I was 18 and it was my first, but still- so it was cool to see her say, 'okay, enough. I'm better than this.' Go, Dee!
I'm the same! Bear your soul to me and I will love you. *g* Even if your soul ain't too pretty. And yes, I think many people can relate to the emotions that Dee described--and they're in character--she is very young. I certainly have been in that position. It doesn't usually lead to a healthy relationship, so I find the fact that it's got so frakked up believable.

I love that you kept those roses! That is so ridiculously romantic and very LEE.
Yeah, I know, right? *headdesk* Looking back on it, I have to laugh. He sent them to work the day that I had resolved to break up with him. I had spontaneous sobbing in the foyer--it was very embarrassing. And of course it had taken me weeks to pluck up the courage to dump him, and I was sure I was doing the 'right' thing, and I did so anyway and all... but I hung on to those roses too. And oh, lord, they meant SO MUCH to me later that year when I started getting the Regrets. *g* Lee on bended knee begging Dee to take him back? Pretty much exactly me.
(no subject) - kristiinthedark on January 30th, 2007 09:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 30th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kristiinthedark on January 30th, 2007 10:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on January 30th, 2007 10:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
sarmoti: BSG - Lee/Kara stealing glancessarmoti on January 30th, 2007 09:22 pm (UTC)
Hmm, you've made me more thinky about Lee/Dee now. How DARE you! :) While Lee and Lee/Dee are frustrating I was really glad that they dealt with them in this episode. And really, for me, this is all about Lee. I don't really care what Dee gets out of this whole thing; instead I'm more interested in what Lee's relationship with Dee says about him, how it affects his storylines and actions. While it was upsetting that Lee begged Dee to take him back (and that she DID!) it wasn't surprising, and if anything, I'm just really curious as to what happens with them (and with Kara/Sam and Kara/Lee) now.

I'm hoping that Lee/Kara will finally step back enough from their whirlwind of passion to truly rebuild their friendship and their partnership as officers. From UB to EoJ they went from avoiding each other to fondling each other in, like, two seconds. They didn't really deal with the hurt and mistrust that was still lingering between them - they just bulldozed right through it, and they can't build a future on that. Eventually they will again want to be with each other for realz, but before then I want to see their relationship truly mended, which will only happens once they're both honest and open with each other and, more importantly, with themselves. Until then...VIVA LA EYEFRAKKING!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee is emo!bop_radar on January 30th, 2007 09:32 pm (UTC)
Hmm, you've made me more thinky about Lee/Dee now. How DARE you!
Heeee. I am EVOL like that! ;-)

was really glad that they dealt with them in this episode. And really, for me, this is all about Lee.
Same, and same. And this was all in character to me, although it was painful to watch. I think the drunkenness was overplayed (particularly the ring search) but the basic emotional arc with Dee made sense to me for Lee. And yes, I am very curious to see where to from here.

From UB to EoJ they went from avoiding each other to fondling each other in, like, two seconds. They didn't really deal with the hurt and mistrust that was still lingering between them - they just bulldozed right through it, and they can't build a future on that.
Definitely! And again it's understandable (all that insane pent up attraction and chemistry bubbling over, with fear keeping them from tackling emotions instead) but it's also not going to work long term. And I really really want to see them regain a friendship and a good working relationship (I love them when their powers combine!) before we get into all that. So it worked for me if this is meant to be the 'taking a step back'.

It's official for me now. Kara/Lee eyefrak better than my other OTP Clark/Lex in Smallville. And that is REALLY SAYING A LOOOOT. Oh, man, that image of Lee's last woobie eyefrak of Kara is still etched on my brain. :-(
(no subject) - bloodygoodgirl on February 1st, 2007 03:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee/Helobop_radar on February 1st, 2007 06:57 am (UTC)
An entirely appropriate response! *hugs* Let us hope for better this week!
Diana: Reporter -- Lois Lanebutterfly on February 1st, 2007 02:58 pm (UTC)
It's so nice to have someone else happy about the Lee/Dee connection at the end. I was feeling a bit alone, reading everyone else's reviews!

Lee is my favorite (human) character on the show, so I really felt for him, too, in this episode. And I think it's because I'm such a fan of Lee that I don't want him with Kara -- she's torn up his heart too many times.
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Leebop_radar on February 1st, 2007 06:47 pm (UTC)
You're not alone! Although I know what you mean this week... *clings* I was pondering writing another post in defence of Lee (and Dee)--it's been getting to me a bit. I'm so glad someone else felt for him! I know he was shown to be a bastard in this ep, but it's not as if Kara's exactly a saint! And I found Lee's actions just profoundly sad--he's so so vulnerable, and yes, right now, I would be terrified of him going to Kara because I think inevitably she would cheat (sorry, Kara fans, but I think she would) and he would break his heart. That's not what I want to see. Right now, I am far, far happier to see him solidify something with Dee. For me, some balance has been regained in relation to Kara too--she's rejected him enough times. I'm glad he wasn't a pushover here.
(no subject) - butterfly on February 2nd, 2007 03:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on February 3rd, 2007 04:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - butterfly on February 3rd, 2007 10:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on February 4th, 2007 12:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - butterfly on February 5th, 2007 02:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bop_radar on February 5th, 2007 07:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Confessions of a selfish shipper - daybreak777 on February 13th, 2007 06:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessions of a selfish shipper - bop_radar on February 13th, 2007 09:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mistress Spinmlsky on February 11th, 2007 04:48 am (UTC)
First, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts on this episode. And I think I'm with you...the more I watch the more that jumps out at me making me love it that much more. I loved your insights and see things much the same.

Second, I hope you don't mind, but I'm adding you to my flist. *smiles*

Nice to meet ya!
K, Bop or Boppy--take your pick!: Lee gay pornbop_radar on February 11th, 2007 05:34 am (UTC)
Oh, hi! *waves* Thank you for your comment! It's good to know that I wasn't completely alone in my response to this ep. ;-) And yes, good to meet you too! *friends back*